I hope to be married someday in the near future. As a practicing Catholic I have a concern about birth control use. I have a couple of serious health conditions and it would be dangerous for me to become pregnant and to carry a baby. It's even doubtful that I could carry a baby to term. For those same reasons I cannot use birth control pills but would it be o.k in the eyes of the church to use other forms of b.c.? The Rhythm method wouldn't be sufficient because my cycles are very irregular and I would also need to use something that is known to be a little more reliable. So, I guess what I'm asking is under the circumstances if it would be o.k. for us to use another form of birth control?

-- renae (tarecos@hotmail.com), November 10, 2002

Answers

Bless you for wanting to do what is right in this regard. Artificial birth control is never allowed to prevent conception. There is more to natural family planning than "rhythm." There are many methods of NFP in which through various methods, a woman charts her monthly cycle and can tell through various signs when her fertile times are. If you are interested, you should contact your diocesan pro-life or family life office and they should be able to give you the names of NFP instructors in the diocese.

Are you truly sure you can not carry a baby? Some doctors don't want to be bothered with "problem" pregnancies, where they have to intervene and provide more care for you during a pregnancy. Consult a couple of doctors, and find one that is a practicing Catholic, loyal to the Church on family life teachings (very difficult to do, I know). There are truly Catholic doctors, very few, who totally work accepting the Church's teachings on birth control. Check out www.omsoul.com for a list of these doctors and other info on NFP, etc.

-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), November 10, 2002.

Thank you for your reply Christina. I guess we just need to talk to a priest. All of the Natural Methods require that a woman be able to tell her fertile times and in my case that is not possible. My cycles are much too irregular.

As far as my being able to carry a baby. That is an issue but that is not the only issue. As I eluded to, I have several health problems. Only one makes my ability to actual become pregnant and carry a baby doubtful. My other health conditions make it actually dangerous (life threatening) if I were to become pregnant. So there must be circumstances such as these where the Church does allow something to be used. If it were certain I could not become pregnant, I wouldn't be concerned but I really should not even contemplate pregnancy.

Like I said, I guess we just need to talk to a priest because this would be for health reasons. Thanks again for your response.

-- renae (tarecos@hotmail.com), November 10, 2002.

Beware abortificients! Birth control pills are abortificients, as they still allow conception to take place sometimes, and the fertilized egg, cannot attach itself to the uterus wall, due to it's hardening, by the hormones released by birth control pills.

Note, that no artificial contraceptives are 100 percent effective, so you still run the risk of pregnancy.

Some NFP methods are as effective as the most effective artificial contraception, so no reason to think otherwise. There have been studies done, that you can check on the net.

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), November 11, 2002.

How do Birth Control Pills Work

"Progestin also prevents the uterus's lining from developing normally; so, if an egg were fertilized, implantation is unlikely."

Notice the source is not even a pro-life site, so you can see that any claims from pro-lifers that birth control pills are abortificients is not something that is fabricated.

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), November 11, 2002.

The whole "Cycle Charting" medthod fails more than 1/3 of the time! Exactly why do you people beleive that birth control is a sin? Some Bible verse commanding mankind to "be fruitful"? Well, we've more than succeeded in that regard--there are 6 BILLION people on this planet and growing! Increased population actually lowers standard of living and raises poverty. Consider China; they have so many people, that the country has instituted a "one-child" only policy, and as a result millions of infant girls are murdered every year...and not only in China! This is common in most of the world. If anything, birth control should be encouraged!!!!

-- Dominatrixx (Dominatrixx77@hotmail.com), November 11, 2002.

Renae, ignore that last post.

NFP if practised properly is as effective as the Pill in preventing pregngancy. It DOES NOT matter if your cycle is irregular; that's the whole point of NFP. You check various body signs, (sometimes body temperature, cervical mucus, etc) and chart these. Believe me, if you can work with experienced NFP people/teachers/doctors, they can help you. I recently went to see a doctor speak who has studied NFP and helps his patients use it for family planning and also to achieve pregnancy for infertile couples, and even with irregular cycles, it works.

If you contact a priest, don't be surprised if he says it's OK to use artificial birth control. Many priests are confused and obstinate and don't want to "offend" their parishoners. As mentioned above, many birth control methods are also at times abortifacients, besides also increasing the risk of breast cancer and other health problems.

May I suggest you pray to Blessed Gianna Beretta Molla, an Italian doctor who was told by her doctor to abort her baby because she would die if she had it or refused treatment for cancer...she ignored her doctor, had the baby, and yes, she did die...that baby was present at her beatification...she lost her mother, but she was born, and was able to be say her mother is a saint! Perhaps it's too easy for me to say, but let God's will be done here, and wonderful things might happen for you!

-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), November 11, 2002.

Renae,

I've spoken with a couple of people that are in your situation. There are a few of things to remember:

1) Despite what anyone tells you about options, there ALLWAYS is the option of abstinence; even IN marriage.

2) Even if NFP doesn't work WELL with you, still remember that pregnancies only occur a small percentage of the time.

3) While some will claim that NFP isn't 100% effective, EVEN sterilization (tying the tubes) isn't 100% effective, and much worse condoms, the pill, etc.

4) Although you may "hope to be married someday in the future", you might consider this to be a sign that God is calling you somewhere else. Not that He really IS, but you might start asking God what His "hope" is for you. Marriage, but with adopted children could be a calling (and I feel that there is a huge need for adopting parents, due to the fact that it helps as an alternative to abortion). Also, the religious life (however "un-cool" it has become) is a very necessary and powerful calling.

5) If you stay firm in your beliefs as a Catholic and hold True to the One Church that God Himself founded, you WILL be blessed out of your socks no matter what!

Christine was right in saying that artificial birth control (abc) is NEVER okay to use, as it separates the unitive and procreative aspects of the marriage act and serve to take the place of God in deciding when a life will be created. As I had mentioned, there IS other options, abstinence being one of them.

My prayers and thoughts are with you.

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake_huether@yahoo.com), November 11, 2002.

Renae,

Natural Family Planning isn't a technique, but rather a class of techniques. Some of them are indeed far more effective than artificials, and don't depend at all on rhythm, guessing games, or ticking-clock conjugal relations with one's husband. And, for that matter, they aren't complicated.

All of this notwithstanding, I would also like to invite you to pray about why God has given you life and what purposes he may have for you on this Earth. You may be called to a sublime greatness, to being a special conduit of God's grace to others in such a way as only a radically holy lifestyle would allow.

So, you asked a question about birth control, and perhaps the best answer to that is another question: have you supposed, perhaps a little prematurely, that marriage is inevitably your calling?

Actually, no one here is asking you or even advising you to become a religious. All I would ask is that you give equal consideration to all possible classes of vocations--matrimony, consecrated religious life, blessed single life--in terms of the highest Good. This requires you to set aside, temporarily, considerations of comfort, expediency, personal worthiness, etc. and contemplate, at great length, the inner motions of our soul, your conscience, and the will of our Lord.

I hope this has helped! God bless.

-- Skoobouy (skoobouy@hotmail.com), November 11, 2002.

Renae,

Everything will work out. Just put it in God's hands. If you get a chance you should pray to the future saint that Christina mentioned, and read about her life.

If you would like a holy card, or a novena prayer, or to report favors received, please contact; Blessed Gianna Beretta Molla Society. The address is PO Box 59557, Philadephia, PA 19102-9557.

Don't stress about it! Pray about it, and you will be fine.

I will rember you in my prayers before the Blessed Sacrament.

God bless you.

David S

-- David (David@excite.com), November 11, 2002.

Hello, Renae.

To become very familiar with NFP through reading, I strongly recommend that you visit this site.

John and Sheila Kippley started the Couple to Couple League in 1971, not long after modern NFP methods were discovered [God's gift after "Humanae vitae" of 1968], as the "Model T" of NFP (rhythm) began to be phased out.

The Kippleys have now overseen the teaching of over 100,000 couples throughout the U.S. and in foreign lands. They and their staff of medical and other experts have tons of experience working with women just like you -- some with irregular cycles and some with serious health problems. If you will trust them, they will help you through this. I suggest that, after you do a lot of reading at their site, you contact them by mail, e-mail, or phone call -- to discuss your special concerns.

Please do not give another moment's thought to using any kind of contraceptive. Most importantly, using them is gravely immoral (making you unable to receive the sacraments). But they have "practical" drawbacks too. Besides being expensive, the ones that are called "reliable" are those made with artificial hormones; these sometimes work by causing very early abortions -- and they have a huge list of dangerous side effects (including, new research is showing, an elevated risk of breast cancer).

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 12, 2002.

I believed thaat NFP was not a problem, for a long time. Lately I have read some things that are disturbing. Of cours, there is nothing artificial about it. There are sinse of mental reservation, if that is a proper term, which might be a sin. Why do you abstain, during the fertile period? Would it be for grave physical reasons? Would it be for a new car, or house?. Motive is important. One wag, put it as such. "A farmer does not want to harvest wheat, so he plants it in the winter time" He did nothing physically wrong, but it was pushing God to the limit, if he thought therewas a chance for that wheat to grow. Motive is the key. Yes Pius 12th said ok, but did not elaboate, like Pius 11, Who said pretty much that marital relations were ok during the non fertile time, and not that it was wilfully ok to avoid during the fertile period. Our Lord said "Increase and multiply". Once again, I too thought that NFP was ok until last year> God bless

-- ed Richards (loztra@yahoo.com), December 07, 2002.

hi Ed, we walk a fine line on this one. The motives of the heart are significant, and only God knows the heart. My husband and I used abc {artificial birth control} for the first few years until the Holy Spirit got a hold of us and we began hungering to do His will in all areas of our lives. We thought the ovulation method {tracking fertility} would be a hassle, but still we were pulled to obedience.

We observed cycles for 13 years,{early menopause ushered us into a new phase, praise be to God} the ovulation method bacame our life, and the fruit of it was that it drew us closer together, and caused us to pray and abstain together, and to understand each other, and it gave us great opportunity for prayer and submission to God's will. While we were 'conrolling' as best we could what happened to us, we were still giving God the final word. It wasn't a picnic as I was not real regular, but knowing we were following Jesus gave us His Joy in the end.

I lay this personal stuff out for the benefit of others. We just can't lay too heavy a burden on each other. We must keep each other in prayer, and remember only God knows the heart. He will strengthen each individual and reveal His will, step by step. Let's pray for trust. Theresa

-- Theresa Huether (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), December 07, 2002.

> "Our Lord said "Increase and multiply"."

I wonder, is it wrong for a family to decide to have only one child? The Holy Family, had only one child. I ask this, as some people are getting married later in life, and having a lot of children, is more difficult then when you are younger.

I also feel in someways, that the more children you have, the more servants there will be for God. A previous girlfriend first pointed that out to me, and I thought that sounds very admirable, and I am sure very pleasing to Our Lord.

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), December 07, 2002.

HI Gordon, good point, I've sat behind big home-schoolin' families in church, and was so very filled with love just watching them. It's almost surreal in this 'me-centered' world. There's no family without trials, but these families are an exterior witness to God's plan of multiplying His love, in that I can see the older kids taking care of the younger ones. God bless them. It's so not easy for the parents to have to answer to folks who think they're 'uneducated' and ask stupid quiestions like 'why are you having so many kids?". It is kingdom building!

Every family has it's own calling, just as every individual does. The Holy Family's calling was to raise the Savior of the world. They were not called to have a big blood family, we ALL are their kids!

On another subject... I'd like to clarify something on my previous post, the one before Gordon's up there, when my husband and I decided to do NFP {natural family planning}, what happened was my brother was preparing for his wedding and they started learning the billings method {observing fertile mucous}, so we figured, if they can do it, we can do it.. Our local Catholic hospital was providing classes, so we began there. The classes lasted 10 months,it was a commitment. I say this for the benefit of others searching for answers. Keep searching, God will bless you. Theresa

-- Theresa Huether (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), December 08, 2002.

Theresa, I want to thank you for your testimony of conversion and faithfulness. It will give courage to many couples who read it in the days and years to come.

Gordon, it is not possible to make a generalized statement about whether it is OK for a married couple to have just one child. You can't go wrong if you observe the precept outlined in "Humanae vitae" by Pope Paul VI.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 10, 2002.

Jane, I hope that you had a chance to read some of the other posts.

Renae, it would do you good to skip over Jane's advice. Not because I say it is bad, or because my word is better than hers, but because she is in direct opposition to the Pope AND to the Catholic Church. While she thinks that she "still has [her] faith", it is apperant that she does not. Our faith is a constant - it is unchanging - whether in this time or in 100 years. It cannot be conformed to "modern times". It is our hope that soon "modern times" will conform to our faith.

One thing Jane said that is correct is that your health is first. This being said, if there is nothing more you can do - then abstinance is always an option.

My prayers are with you... both.

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake_huether@yahoo.com), December 10, 2002.

Jmj

Hello, Jane Spears.
I have seen some amazing posts by Catholics at this forum through the years, but yours is so blatantly erroneous and sinful that it left me speechless for a moment. I will go through it and explain how your words are both wrong and dangerous to yourself and others. My comments will be in [brackets]."

"I cannot believe the ignorance of the modern day catholic."
[You show one form of ignorance, Jane, by not even capitalizing the word "Catholic." You show another form by calling "ignorant" the very people who are properly living out the Catholic faith."]

"I honestly thought at least somebody would advise Renae that contraception is a perfectly safe and legal option in this situation."
[You "honestly thought" the first thing because you didn't realize that this is a forum for genuine, orthodox Catholics, who choose not to break God's commandments. You "honestly thought" the second thing because you are ignorant of the fact that contraception is NOT "perfectly safe." A true Catholic could never advise Renae to use contraception, for such advice (and her subsequent use) would be mortal sins. The use of contraception (especially the popular articial-hormonal types) is dangerous, not "perfectly safe." Just take a look at the complex package inserts with their tons of fine print, if you doubt me. Not only are there many and serious side effects (causing lots of women to abandon these things), but the word is now leaking out that these things are tied to higher rates of cancer.]

"As catholics we have to progress with the times and evolutions of a our diverse society."
[It's not possible to generalize as you do. There are some ways in which "society" has "devolved" (evolved negatively) -- such as decriminalizing abortion. The acceptance of contraception (all since 1930) is an area in which society has not "progressed," but has gotten sidetracked into an anti-God behavior pattern. As Catholics, we sometimes have to be counter-cultural, to help society get back on track.]

"I still have my faith and am a person of ethics and morality -- and if I were in Renae's situation I too would use contraception."

[Considering what you advise, you do not "still have [your] faith," at least not all of it. Part of your "faith" means being obedient to what the Church tells us is God's moral law. If you are defiantly disobedient instead, you show a lack of faith and an attachment to IMmorality. You would then be "a person of [flawed] ethics."]

"Renae, your health should be your upmost priority in this situation. I suggest you speak to a doctor (not a priest) as this is a medical matter and your doctor will be of help to you."

[Jane, I guess you really didn't read this whole thread -- at least not Christina's excellent advice to Renae (that she visit www.omsoul.com) to locate a reliable doctor -- and my advice to her (that she contact www.ccli.org) to speak to experts on irregular cycles and alternatives to contraception.]

"I would recommend you take the pill in your situation as it is a harmless and effective contraceptive -- however other safe options are available to you and your partner."
[First you tell Renae to talk to a doctor, but then you decide you have to play "doctor" and tell her to take "the pill," though you are ignorant of how dangerous it is. You yourself are harmful to Renae's health. You should remain silent until you become educated.]

"Have you thought about your partner using condoms?"
[What's this about a "partner," Jane? Are you only pretending to be a Catholic? A Catholic would speak of a "husband," not a "partner."]

"Another option is your partner could have a vasectomy -- which these days is a quick procedure that is most effective (and reversable if desired). This ... in no way [will] have any bearing on your faith or your ethics."
[Again, Jane, are ignorant of multiple facts -- e.g., the fact that a vasectomy is not always reversible, sometimes "fails" (happily), and (most importantly) is gravely immoral. Sterilization is always a mortal sin, putting a soul in danger of eternal hellfire.]

"In fact, I would argue it [is] the responsible thing to do and urge you to seek information on the subject of birth control from a doctor."
[Getting involved in sterilization or contraception is not a "responsible thing to do," but an irresponsible one. God has given spouses his own natural form of birth regulation, and he prohibits couples from straying outside their limits, under pain of mortal sin. Jane, we orthodox Catholics -- not you -- are the ones who have given "Renae's health the priority it deserves."]

"Safe, harmless and legal contraception I feel is her only choice - and the right choice."
[WRONG! "Unsafe, harmful, and illicit" are actually the accurate adjectives to describe contraception. Contraception is NOT Renae's only choice, and it is the wrong choice.]

God bless you, Renae. May God forgive and enlighten Jane S.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 13, 2002.

For the benefit of future readers ...
Between my post and Jake H's post on the December 10, there once was a message from someone who signed off as "Jane Spears." The subsequent replies (by Jake H and me) were to this "Jane," not to the long-time forum visitor named Jane Ulrich (wife of Carlos Eire). Since the post by Jane Spears is now gone, I have to assume that one of these must be true: (1) a banned person used "Jane Spears" as an alias, or (2) the Moderator accidentally deleted the post, thinking that the author was impersonating Jane Ulrich.

I'll bet that it was #1, with Joan "goddessss" Storey playing the role of Jane Spears. One thing I forgot to mention before was how foolish it was for "Jane" to advise Renae to consider the use of condoms. Even if it were morally OK to use them, it would be ridiculous to do so, since they fail to prevent pregancy an average of 15% of the time (i.e., around 15 of 100 women using condoms for a year will get pregnant) -- just what Renae says she doesn't want.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 15, 2002.

John,

You are correct, "Jane Spears" was one alias used by the current imposter. His(her) posts are going to be deleted until they quit impersonating people.

-- moderator ("Catholic_moderator@twocents.com"), December 15, 2002.