After about 30 seconds, an old, dark skinned preacher with a head of short-cropped, woolly white hair stood up in the back of the auditorium. "Docta Tillich, I got one question," he said as all eyes turned toward him. He reached into his sack lunch and pulled out an apple and began eating it. "Docta Tillich"... CRUNCH, MUNCH... "My question is a simple question," CRUNCH, MUNCH. "Now, I ain't never read them books you quoted..." CRUNCH, MUNCH "...and I can't recite the Scriptures in the original Greek"...CRUNCH, MUNCH ..." and I ain't never heard of Niebuhr and Heidegger"... CRUNCH, MUNCH... He finished the apple. "All I wanna know is: This apple I just ate - was it bitter or sweet?" Dr. Tillich paused for a moment and answered in exemplary scholarly fashion: "I cannot possibly answer that question, for I haven't tasted your apple." The white-haired preacher dropped the core of his apple into his crumpled paper bag, looked up at Dr. Tillich and said calmly, "Yes Sir, and you ain't never tasted my Jesus neither." The 1,000 plus in attendance could not contain themselves. The auditorium erupted with applause and cheers. Dr. Tillich hastily thanked his audience and promptly left the platform.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 09, 2003

Answers

So what does that mean, that the Faith is a personal, private experience that can't be explained or defended?

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), January 09, 2003.

I would say it means....folks will believe in what they want (or need) to believe in, no matter the facts to support or not support it. Many people would prefer death than finding out that what they based their entire life on was in the literal sense...untrue. It is quite understandable. Most folks could never cope with the possibility that there is no life after death, so even if God appeared to tell them that, they would say he was a false god and hold on to what makes it all bearable and liveable. People are truly an interesting species.

-- John (JRocki@aol.com), January 09, 2003.

Doesn't sound like you know much about the Catholic religion, John. Our Church insists that we MUST investigate the facts, and not just rely on our own personal likes & dislikes.

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), January 09, 2003.

Amen Christene!

The Catholic Church is not afraid to face debate, challenge, or investigation. It has some of the most investigative and rational people who have ever existed in it's ranks (St. Thomas Aquinas for example. Scientific truth and faith are not contradictory, one might not be able to explain the other, but they are not in opposition. Both are from God anyway.

Joe Biltz

-- Joseph Carl Biltz (jcbiltz@netzero.net), January 09, 2003.

Thank you for that Paul -

That reminds me of the story of the little girl in class with the teacher saying there was no God because you can't see Him. And the little girl said well, we can't see your brian either - so by your own idea, you must not have one... lol!

Christine,

"Doesn't sound like you know much about the Catholic religion, John."

I don't think he was making a comment directed to Catholic's but people in general - which is very true.

God Bless!

-- Tim, the Baptist (tlw97@cox.net), January 09, 2003.

I love that little ditty, Paul. Faith is an amazing phenomenon. If one doesn't have it there is no way you can convince them Jesus is alive. Our most powerful testimony is "I was just with Him a moment ago". No one can deny that, or take it away from us.

-- Theresa Huether (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), January 09, 2003.

[The story at the top of this thread was actually started on another thread and accidentally continued on this new thread. Please click here to see the introduction and beginning of the story.]

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 10, 2003.

Well ... as long as we all understand that this is a *story* - one of them there "urban legends" ... but since Tillich was a liberal Protestant theologian, and the "white haired preacher" seems to be an evangelical Protestant preacher, it doesn't really push any of my buttons! ;-)

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), January 10, 2003.

Well as Franz Werfel said about Fatima. "For those that believe, no explanation is necessary, and for those that do not believe, no explanation is possible".

-- ed Richards (loztra@yahoo.com), January 10, 2003.

That was Lourdes, Ed. Franz wrote The Song of Bernadette.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 10, 2003.

Christine,
Al Jolson sang that in 1902 at the burlesque theater in Washington D.C. --Werfel was his landsman; a fine songwriter! :~ ) %

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 10, 2003.

You are absolutely correct Eugene. Thanks for the info about Jolsson.. Ded Werfel write "Mammy"?

-- ed Richards (loztra@yahoo.com), January 10, 2003.

Uh-huh.
That was maybe Gustav Mahler, whose widow Franz Werfel married. (I'm not making this up!) /:~)

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 10, 2003.

Thanks Eugene, Ithought you were going to zing me with"did Werfel write Mammy". I thought you'd say, "Nope but he kept in touch with pappy"

-- ed Richards (loztra@yahoo.com), January 10, 2003.

Ed,
I happen to be an avid Al Jolson fan. But I'm a Gustav Mahler fan too. I love Saint Bernadette. I love Our Blessed Mother. (A secret: I love Jews.) With me, the Jews would never have a problem. Jesus is a Jew, you know. What's not to like?

Mammy is a lovely song. ''Sonny Boy'' was Jolson's killer song. --My dad would sing it to me when I was a tot. My life may soon come to an end; and I hope to see Our Saviour; all the saints and the Holy mother of God-- my family-- my father. And Al Jolson. Trust me, he'll be in heaven.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 11, 2003.

Eugene, I know some about Jolson. Married Ruby Keeler, and I believe that he made the first talkie, "the Jazz Singer". Think his dad wanted him to be a cantor (not Eddie), at least that 's what the movie depicted. The guy did hae a great voice. I have some songs on tape. He'd be a bit schmaltzy for today's crowd though. Thanks for all the info Eugene.

Godbless you.

-- ed Richards (loztra@yahoo.com), January 11, 2003.

Yeah, he was.
My Jewish pals are usually schmaltzy. It's true to form; and he was the greatest. Bigger than Michael Jackson or Elvis, at the time. Jolson died with eighteen million real dollars (before the buck went south), in the bank.

Not many people know, he left a 3rd of the money to his heirs; a 3rd to Jewish charities, and a 3rd to the Catholic Church. I guess like a good Jewish crap-shooter, he hedged his bets! Lol!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 11, 2003.

I wish that he had held a few bucks back for me, Hey Gene, this is a brief respite, from the boiler room on that other long thread.

-- ed Richards (loztra@yahoo.com), January 11, 2003.

Gene and Ed, here are some facts:

"The song popularly known as 'My Mammy,' which to many people defines Al Jolson, was written in 1921 by Sam Lewis and Joe Young [for the Irving Berlin music corporation], with music by Walter Donaldson, and [was originally] entitled "The Sun Shines East -- The Sun Shines West." It was introduced by William Frawley, known to later generations as Fred Mertz on "I Love Lucy." Legend has it that it was spotted as a potential hit for Jolson, who introduced it in the show 'Sinbad' that year."

To see the full lyrics and to listen to the original recording, go here.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 11, 2003.

hanks, John;
I read in his bio Jolson took the starring role on Broadway which Frawley had originated. I was KIDDING Ed about Franz Werfel, obviously. But he did marry Mahler's widow. She was Alma Mahler-- the most beautiful woman in Vienna in her youth. Werfel was a fine writer.

Mahler was a Viennese Jew of immense talent who was discriminated against by many of his peers; and converted to Catholicism. Many ''experts'' think it was for social reasons only.

I think that's disingenuous. Mahler had a very early sense of impending death most of his adult years. He will not have been so shallow as to deny his Hebrew faith so easily. he died a faihful Catholic. I don't know if Werfel ever converted. Alma was a Catholic from birth.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 11, 2003.

John,
Very apropos to our theme in this thread: Belief in Resurrection.

Mahler's 2nd symphony carries the sub- title; ''Resurrection''. Not music everyone cares for; I love it. But we can see Mahler understood the Creed's concept of a final resurrection of the living and the dead. p>Another insight I reached a few minutes ago (doing housework)--

Mahler wote many art-songs which rank highly in the classical music canon. One cycle is called Knaben Wunderhorn;

Mahler set to music the poems of one Clemens Brentano for this work. Being of course, that poet who gave up his career to undertake recording the mystical visions and contemplations of Venerable Anne Catherine Emmerich!

I wonder if Mahler ever had occasion to read Anne Catherine Emmerich's book. Brentano was in his repertory.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 11, 2003.

Thank you fellows, for all that Jolson information, and the lead to his web site.

We have a Saturday nite DJ here who plays all these 20's 30's 40's songs and I record them. A lot of it is Jolson, plus all the other good entertainers of that era. I don't go for this rock stuff. Strictly Lawrence Welk type, or Andre Rieu, the Hollander and his wonderful orchestra. Some Montavani too.

By the way Eugene, what does Lolito Lindo mean.

-- ed Richards (loztra@yahoo.com), January 11, 2003.

Ed:
I don't think you heard right. ''Cielito'' Lindo is the title of an old Mexican tune.

I call my wife ''Cielo'' quite often. A term of endearment which means, ''Heaven''. Like saying, you are ''heavenly''. Cielito Lindo is ''Lovely little Heaven''. Nothing like Spanish to charm the woman we love. I ought to know, Amigos.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 12, 2003.

Gene, I very much like the music of Mahler. But it has been far too long since I heard any of it.

Unfortunately, Franz Werfel never converted from Judaism.
Also unfortunately, Alma (nee Schindler) Mahler left her second husband (Walter Gropius) for Franz Werfel. She was divorced and "remarried."
Fortunately, Alma (d. 1964) outlived Franz (d. 1945), so she had a chance to repent for her mistake.

More on Werfel here.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 12, 2003.

Thank's Eugene, for the translation. That is a beautiful expression ,and a beautiful tune. I'll have to call my wife that, among other nice tings.

Also thanks John, for the Werfel connection. He had some life, too bad he did not convert. We can hope for the best for him. It was a beautiful story, that he wrote. I had the privilege of spending a little time in Prague, and Vienna, both lovely cities, with beautiful churches

-- ed Richards (loztra@yahoo.com), January 13, 2003.