Should married couples abstain from sex until they want a child ? i.e should they not even be able to use condoms ? is sperm considered as a human being, hence it's death being considered as serious ? Hope it doesn't sound silly, just want to get a perspective on the matter.

-- anon (anon@net.com), January 11, 2003

Answers

Married people can make love whenever they want. But they must never use any form of contraception. This is a grave sin.

A human life is created at the moment of conception. So sperm and egg cells are not considered people. But the bible says that a man shall not spill his seed on the ground, so it does demand respect as the way in which God chose for us to participate with him in the act of creating life.

God bless,

-- Tom (tjb2_99@yahoo.com), January 11, 2003.

"Should married couples abstain from sex until they want a child?" Heavens no! There are alternatives to artificial birth control methods that are sanctioned and endorsed by the Church. Have you ever heard of Natural Family Planning? Catholics are encouraged to use this program as a means to naturalloy controlling the size of a family.

You can read all about this program at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops site at this address:

http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/index.htm

-- Ed Lauzon (grader@accglobal.net), January 11, 2003.

Just for the record...just for some facts...without any context of right or wrong: 87% of Catholics of child bearing age use some form of birth control other than then the so called rhythm method proposed by the church.

And...If your question were fact all couples who are either sterile, or past menopause would be abstaining.

-- Manny (MBA@fortune.org), January 11, 2003.

A great way to ensure that you DO get pregnant is to use so called 'natural alternatives' like the rhythm method, or withdrawal. These methods never work, it's best to abstain from sex, or have lots of children. If you're from a third world country (you probably won't be reading this!) this may mean that many of your children die of starvation, this is very sad, but you must remember that this is God's desire, and you will be reunited with these poor tortured souls in Heaven as you have obeyed Gods word. Alternatively anal sex may be an option you could canvass. God Bless

-- Anna (catholic@hotmail.com), January 11, 2003.

Anna, I will pray for you. Sacred Heart of Jesus have mercy on this person.

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), January 11, 2003.

Just for the record, Natural Family Planning is neither the "rythm method" or the "withdrawl method".

-- Ed Lauzon (grader@accglobal.net), January 11, 2003.

Tom,

"But the bible says that a man shall not spill his seed on the ground"

I used to wonder about condemns and stuff and what you said, but is this where you get that in the Bible or elsewhere?

Ge 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. Ge 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. Ge 38:10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

It is clear that God slew him because he disobeyed Judah, not because of spilling his seed on the ground.

God Bless!

-- Tim, the Baptist (tlw97@cox.net), January 11, 2003.

Dear "anon,"

You were given correct answers by Tom and Ed Lauzon. The other replies were incorrect.

Manny wrote:
"Just for the record...just for some facts...without any context of right or wrong: 87% of Catholics of child bearing age use some form of birth control other than then the so called rhythm method proposed by the church."

The actual "facts" include the following:

(1) The Catholic Church does not "propose" the "so called rhythm method." The Catholic Church approves of modern, natural means of birth regulation (sometimes called methods of Natural Family Planning). [What used to be called "rhythm" is outdated, sometimes called a "Model T.]
(2) Manny does not have a valid percentage of "Catholics of child bearing age use some form of birth control" disapproved by the Church. I think that he forgot that the Catholic Church is "catholic" -- i.e., universal, and no worldwide survey on birth control among Catholic has ever been taken. His figure (87%) comes from a U.S. survey, the results of which cannot be trusted, because of the kinds of people included under the term "Catholic" (e.g., people who are not really active Catholics).

Gordon, you are kind to pray for Anna. She too is lacking the truth. She wrote: "A great way to ensure that you DO get pregnant is to use so called 'natural alternatives' like the rhythm method, or withdrawal."

Because of the media blackout (sometimes even deception) on modern NFP, Anna is not aware of the facts, but thinks that people still use and promote rhythm and withdrawal. (The Church has always condemned the latter.)

[concluded below]

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 11, 2003.

Anna is also wrong to say that rhythm "never work[ed]." It did work for many couples, for others no.

Anna is wrong to hint that Catholicism teaches that "it's best to abstain from sex or have lots of children."

Anna is wrong to hint that not using contraception "may mean that many of your [third-world] children die of starvation, ... but you must remember that this is God's desire ..."

Children do not die due to lack of using contraception, but for other reasons. There is already more than enough food in the world for everyone, and there could be five (or more) times the necessary food if modern techniques of agriculture were used worldwide. The Church does not teach that God "desire[s]" that little children die.

Anna is wrong to recommend "anal sex," which the Church forbids as a form of sodomy and contraception.

Commenting on Tom's statement ("But the bible says that a man shall not spill his seed on the ground"), Tim the Baptist wrongly rejects Genesis 38 as condemning coitus interruptus (withdrawal) as a form of contraception.
[concluded below]

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 11, 2003.

Tim is mistaken in saying: "It is clear that God slew him because he disobeyed Judah, not because of spilling his seed on the ground."
Such a thing is by no means "clear." What is clear is that ALL of Christianity, including the Baptist denomination, taught until 1930 that all forms of contraception (including withdrawal) were deadly sins. What is clear is that the Catholic Church, from the first century until now, has always taught infallibly that Genesis 38 was condemning the act of contraception (not the breaking of the levirate law, as Tim apparently has been taught by someone who is fallible).
Besides the overriding fact that the Catholic teaching simply can't be contradicted, there is the supportive fact that another part of the Bible shows that God's penalty for breaking the levirate law was not death, but something far milder.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 11, 2003.

I think that I should rewrite one of my sentences, lest it be misunderstood.

UNCLEAR: "Tim the Baptist wrongly rejects Genesis 38 as condemning coitus interruptus (withdrawal) as a form of contraception."
CLEAR: "Tim the Baptist is wrong to reject the Catholic teaching that Generis 38 shows God condemning "withdrawal" because it is a form of contraception.

JFG

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 11, 2003.

I guess you guys have never heard of irony?

-- Anna (catholic@hotmail.com), January 11, 2003.

The truth be told Anna....These guys never heard of God. Their interpretation of God turns out to be a sado-masochist, who lurks in the dark recesses of their soul. Their so called"catholic" God is a distorted mirror image of their own ignorance and darkness. Their pathological vision of sex and its need to be twisted around a God of their own fabrication while they wait for a better tomorrow in the land of the after-life would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Sadder yet is their narrow perception that only they know exactly who God is and how he runs the world. They are unable to live with the total awe of the unknown or the openess of not confining the God concept to only the view their small minds can envision.

Through subconscious fear and trembling they cling to a sick vision which creates bigotry and hate, darkness and suffering. Their way is the only way and the world is meant to be Catholic as they define such. They must not prevent the birth of their children in any way so that their weak leanings to be sheep and unconscious blind followers can be handed down to a new generation of like-minded DNA.

Gratefully....they are a minority.

-- geni (geni@aol.com), January 11, 2003.

But what if you *have* to use contraception for medical reasons (ie- hormones, endometriosis, etc)?

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), January 12, 2003.

Jackiea,

Unless I heard wrong, birth control pills being taken as a medical solution to female issues, and not for the purpose of birth control itself, should be fine.

-- Melissa Wilson (meanolemelissa@hotmail.com), January 12, 2003.

> "Unless I heard wrong, birth control pills being taken as a medical solution to female issues, and not for the purpose of birth control itself, should be fine."

Then abstaining from sex has to be followed strictly, or there is risk of causing an abortion within the woman.

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), January 12, 2003.

Persons who are married and are "sterile" or "menopausal" and Catholic of course have sexual intercourse. They trust in God to decide if they will produce a child as a result of their union..it's really that simple. There have been so many cases in the history of medicine where physicians have assured couples that one or the other were incapable of producing a child and then a pregnancy has occured.."surprise"..LOL..and of course, there is that wonderful story in the bible of GOD deciding that Sarah would bear a child, even though she was "old" and "past her time". We choose to let God choose...and not to try to make chemical or artificial end runs around His will. God designed the human body with peaks and valleys of hormonal influences..there are peak times to become pregnant and then times when it is less likely to occur, BUT COULD, if it is HIS will...People who do not devote their lives to the will of the Almighty certainly cannot be expected to grasp this concept..

-- lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), January 12, 2003.

Thanks, Melissa. :)

And this is a bit off topic but I was thinking of you earlier and wondered how things are with Daniel.

Still praying for you both~

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), January 12, 2003.

In Leviticus chapter 15 we read :

16 And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.

17 And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.

I'd appreciate if ppl here could read this chapter and tell me what they think. It would seem to me that if condoms were used, it would be a matter of uncleaness but not something absolutely terrible. It says something about the man being unclean for seven days. I appreciate the feedback, thanks all. anon.

-- anon (anon@anon.net), January 12, 2003.

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Thanks, keep praying! He is, as I post this, on a flight headed for Spain. And I am sick and tired of the few people around me singing that Elton John song to me!

How are things with me and Daniel? Still rough. I think this deployment has unsettled him more than any he has ever faced during his Naval career. He knows that this tour serving as the Planning Officer is the absolute best thing to happen for his future in and out of the Navy. Yet, he is challenged because this is the first deployment with a woman in his life. We still share our love for each other, are still in love, but two years apart will be a bitch. So any, and all prayers for the success of our continuing to make a future as man and wife are appreciated.

-- Melissa Wilson (meanolemelissa@hotmail.com), January 12, 2003.

anon,

You mean God doesn't kill EVERYONE for that happening [Leviticus chapter 15]?

Didn't think so.

God Bless!

-- Tim, the Baptist (tlw97@cox.net), January 13, 2003.

Glad to hear that all is not lost, Melissa. :)

You know, my best friend's husband was in the Army. Before they were even married, he was in Korea for about 2 years. He came home and they got married. They moved around a bit. Had a little girl. He went into the border patrol and was gone about six months in school for it. Still, here they are. Still married. Totally settled and livin the suburbanite life. LOL

So, there's hope for you, too, dear. :)

Take care and God bless~

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), January 13, 2003.

Ok so this is similar to the original question but it is my own delima. I am young 18 and I was just recently married to my husband (21). I want children more than I want air. It is something that I am sure he could never understand. I am currently on "the pill" I do not want to be on it any longer! I feel like every evening when I take it I am stoping the one thing I want in this world. A child. I have been trying to convince my husband that NFP may be our solution. He is VERY concerned because he does not want a child at this point. I am in college and he believes that I may drop out if we had a child. I at this point have very very little desire to even have sex. There is something not quit right with my body. My hormones are fighting the hormones in the pill. This is a health problem.I have prayed for answers and then I found this sight. Maybe someone will see this and offer a shred of hope? Thank You All

-- Tiffany B. (tjhunt@email.com), February 05, 2003.

Tiffany,

I don't have a lot of answers for you, but I have some "homework" for you:

Go to your doctor and ask him/her what the issues of getting off the pill are. For example, I believe that in the months after stopping the pill, pregnancies are at risk to have complications (birth defects, etc). So, be careful! It sounds like you would prefer to wait a while, but it's important to know of these potential risks when you decide to get off the pill. I just found this on the March of Dimes website:

"Medications That Interfere With Folic Acid Raise Risk of Serious Birth Defects, Study Shows"

....

"Oral contraceptives and tetracycline also are reported to interfere with folic acid, Dr. Mattison said."

If you would like information about NPF, here's four ideas:

1) Read the EWTN Q&A section on NFP.

2) Read the articles on the Couple to Couple League website.

3) Enroll in an NFP class. The CCLI website should point you in the right direction.

4) Tell your husband that he's going to class with you! :-)

Using NFP to postpone conception is a daily job, just like the pill. But, instead of sticking a pill in your mouth each day, you stick a thermometer in your mouth each day. It's a great way to learn about your body!

Anyway, God bless you and your husband,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), February 05, 2003.

I love my husband as my friend and as my partner. I'm not catholic, i would like to be. All that my husband and I do in our bedroom is simply because we love one another. I'm sure some of you can concede that love can be expressed emotionally, psychologically, and physically. In private, we express our love physically. I don't want to end up with 15 kids. I like kids but not that much. And, i'm sorry, not copulating is out of the question for both of us. I mean, what are we supposed to do? I can't believe that every time we have intercourse it has to be for the sole and strict purpose of bringing forth a child. Why can't it be to pleasure your spouse. I mean, one of the reasons we got married was so that we could do it without any guilt.

-- J. M. (jm3201@bellsouth.net), December 22, 2004.

JM, you sound like you would make a fine Catholic. I’m sure ALL of us here KNOW “that love can be expressed emotionally, psychologically, and physically. “

“not copulating is out of the question” Of course it is. Read the links on NFP (Natural Family Planning) referred to above. If you want to avoid having a child at the moment, all you have to do is abstain from intercourse for a certain few days each month. It’s no big deal really, and it is as effective as any form of contraception, but without the sin which contraception entails.

Whoever told you that “every time we have intercourse it has to be for the sole and strict purpose of bringing forth a child.” is totally wrong. In fact it would be a sin to have intercourse solely for this purpose. Each act of intercourse must merely REMAIN OPEN TO THE POSSIBILITY (however slight) of having a child, that’s all. And each act of intercourse MUST have the aim of pleasing your spouse and uniting yourself to him in love. You certainly should not feel any guilt about this.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), December 23, 2004.