I honestly believe that Father Marciel Maciel, LC, founder of the glorious Legionaries of Christ, should be given the highest recognition the church can afford, especially given the despicable calumny and wicked stripes he has borne with such dignity. God bless this Saint, who saved my life!

-- Buttinzki (buttinzki@yahoo.com), January 26, 2003

Answers

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-- Joseph Carl Biltz (jcbiltz@canoemail.com), January 29, 2003.

Wow, we can finally post messages and answers again!

Buttinski, I agree with you that fr. Marcial is a great Man and I share your admiration for the Legion, but as you probably know that in order to take any steps towards sainthood the person in question must first be defunct (dead).

When were you in the Legion and for how long, where as well?

Joe

-- Joseph Carl Biltz (jcbiltz@canoemail.com), January 29, 2003.

The cause of canonization occurs after the death of a person, because there is never a guarantee that any person will remain faithful to the end, and the Bible says it is only those who persevere to the end who will be saved. After all, Judas was one of the twelve apostles! - until he defected.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 30, 2003.

On the other hand, many of our greatest saints were acclaimed as such by their admirers before their deaths - an example that springs to mind is the Cure of Ars, St. John Vianney. :-)

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), January 30, 2003.

Another example would be St. Padre Pio, Christine.

-- Christopher (Chr@msft.com), January 31, 2003.

Hello, Joseph. I was in the Legion from 1980-1983, in the Orange, CT, (which moved) then Chesire, CT. My seminary experience was nothing short of grand, Joseph, thanks in part to the brilliant orthodoxy of this great order of priests. Tim

-- Buttinzki (tim_rum@msn.com), February 03, 2003.

Hi Buttinski, I was in the LC from 1989-2000; you were a bit before me. Did you know that Fr. Bannon is organizing get togethers for ex- LC's?

Joe

-- Joseph Carl Biltz (jcbiltz@canoemail.com), February 10, 2003.

I, too, was in the LC aroun 2000. I was in Cheshire mostly, but spent a little time in Thornwood. How have you been since leaving? Ben

-- Benjamin Lackey (lackeyben@aol.com), December 22, 2003.

Why would you even consider the possibility ? Many of the young men that were abused by Maciel, later abused other young men seeking to serve Christ.

-- Patrick M. Keane (cathain@msn.com.au), March 14, 2005.

p>It's not a ''campaign,'' BTW; although in some cases a saint has been so wonderfully virtuous and even shown to be miraculous during his/her lifetime, that everyone already knows there will be cause for a canonization; inevitably. I was just reading the life of Saint John Vianney, Cure of Ars; who lived in the 19th century. A more holy priest likely has never lived. Well before his death the Catholic faithful knew he was positively sure to be canonized; his virtue was so unbelievably heroic.

Yet, he also underwent a period in later life when evil tongues invented malicious things to circulate about his personal life. He suffered the abuse silently and offered it as a cross to His Lord and Saviour. The beauty of his case being, he never even responded publicly to the lies and rumors. Only his confessor knew how deeply he was wounded, and later on, in the process of canonization,

-- He testified for the saint saying how graciously he suffered, without complaining. He blamed Grappin, the devil. ''I know him so well,'' he would say. ''It's him; just trying to make me cry. Let him.''

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 14, 2005.

I somehow lost the top of the last post. Briefly I said that they're trying to destroy Fr Maciel; and I mean Satan and those who circulate evil stories and calumnies. The devil often did that to saints who have since been raised to the altars. It's the usual hatred Satan expresses for all saints and the Church herself. Unless it turned out in a canonical process, that even a SINGLE evil act is found verifiable, Fr Maciel would have to be rejected in any cause for his sainthood. In the meantime he suffers here in this life; and very possibly he's innocent. We must pray for him.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 14, 2005.

Why would you even consider the possibility ? Many of the young men that were abused by Maciel, later abused other young men seeking to serve Christ.

Patrick,

Can you provide a link or reference to something beyond allegation?

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), March 14, 2005.

“Only his confessor knew how deeply he was wounded, and later on, in the process of canonization, -- He testified for the saint saying how graciously he suffered, without complaining.” ??? I understood that a person’s confessor was banned from giving any evidence to an investigation into the case for that person's sainthood, to avoid breaching the Seal of Confession.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), March 14, 2005.

I'm reading the life story. I only see footnotes from what's called ''proces de l'Ordinaire'' after some of the quotes. This is the record of Rome's examination of his cause. If it was someone else whom I was quoting, I can't imagine who, because the Cure never complained publicly. I have to think it was a specal confidante, and that would be another priest. I can go find out; but it's not important.

Is it forbidden to speak of anything whatsoever a confessor learns in confidence? I supposed the seal of the confessional applied to whatever faults a penitent confessed, not just a gag order. Maybe I'm wrong.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 14, 2005.