PREPARING FOR WAR: AMERICA SENDS 100,000 BODY BAGS TO SICILY BASE

Feb 10 2003

By Stephen White and Paul Gilfeather The Mirror, U.K.

Up to 100,000 body bags and 6,000 coffins have been secretly delivered to a US base in Italy, a Catholic archbishop claimed yesterday.

Archbishop Renato Martino, president of the Pope's Council of Peace and Justice, said the consignment had arrived at the Sigonella base near Catania on the island of Sicily 10 days ago.

He said: "Americans are expecting a high number of casualties. That is why so many body bags and coffins have been sent to the base.

"I am very apprehensive about this. War brings only destruction, misery and hate. It doesn't resolve anything and is always like this.

"A true preventative action would be to try and avoid war. The consequences of this war will make themselves all too obvious on the American people when they start to see coffins with loved ones in returning home."

Archbishop Martino added that he would be willing to travel to Washington and meet President Bush if the Pope asked him to be his special envoy.

The rest of the article is at the link http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12624416&method=full&siteid=50143

-- NICKY (NTOWE@RPI.EDU), February 11, 2003

Answers

Let us pray for Peace. amen.

-- Joe Stong (joestong@yahoo.com), February 11, 2003.

While I definitely wish there was no impending war, and am still juggling my personal opinions about this war, in particular, I want to say this. By the statement above from the archbishop, it sounds like he means to say that war should *always* be avoided *at all costs.* While that may not be at all what he means, and maybe I indeed got the wrong impression, that is the impression I was left with. And with that impression I want to say that I do believe there are times when the only way to true peace is through war. An analogy for you:

Heavan is the ultimate 'peace'. And we are at war constantly with the devil and the world to obtain that ultimate peace. If we do not war against the devil and the world then we will never have peace.

-- Isabel (isabel@yahoo.com), February 11, 2003.

Dear Isabel,

The pope and his aides are not saying that every war is immoral. The Church has a "just-war" doctrine, which spells the conditions for a war to be just. The pope, the Vatican and all the bishops in the world, interpreting the just-war theory, are wielding their teaching authority on moral issues, which is binding to all catholics, saying that those conditions are not fulfilled in this case, so that, unless "things change drammaticaly" (to usa a Chris Butlerīs expression), this war now would be immoral (and so, supporting it is equally immoral).

We have been discussing this issue in depth in two other threads, which you might want to read.

God Bless you!

-- Atila (me@somewhere.com), February 11, 2003.

Now, even if a war is "moral", that is, a just war, it is of course never a good thing. The pope has said: "War is allways a failure".

I quote a verse from a vey beautiful song by Sting (Russians):

"Thereīs no such thing as a winnable war Itīs a lie we donīt believe any more"

Letīs pray for peace!

-- Atila (me@somewhere.com), February 11, 2003.

Hereīs the comple lyrics. Amazingly current!

Sting - Russians From the album "The Dream Of The Blue Turtles" (1985)

In Europe and America there's a growing feeling of hysteria Conditioned to respond to all the threats In the rhetorical speeches of the Soviets Mr. Krushchev said we will bury you I don't subscribe to this point of view It would be such an ignorant thing to do If the Russains love their children too

How can I save my little boy from Oppenheimer's deadly toy There is no monopoly of common sense On either side of the political fence We share the same biology Regardless of ideology Believe me when I say to you I hope the Russians love their children too

There is no historical precedent To put words in the mouth of the president There's no such thing as a winnable war It's a lie we don't believe anymore Mr. Reagan says we will protect you I don't subscribe to this point of view Believe me when I say to you I hope the Russians love their children too

We share the same biology Regardless of ideology What might save us me and you Is that the Russians love their children too

-- Atila (me@somewhere.com), February 11, 2003.

Uh oh, went wrong, trying again:

In Europe and America there's a growing feeling of hysteria Conditioned to respond to all the threats In the rhetorical speeches of the Soviets Mr. Krushchev said we will bury you I don't subscribe to this point of view It would be such an ignorant thing to do If the Russains love their children too

How can I save my little boy from Oppenheimer's deadly toy There is no monopoly of common sense On either side of the political fence We share the same biology Regardless of ideology Believe me when I say to you I hope the Russians love their children too

There is no historical precedent To put words in the mouth of the president There's no such thing as a winnable war It's a lie we don't believe anymore Mr. Reagan says we will protect you I don't subscribe to this point of view Believe me when I say to you I hope the Russians love their children too

We share the same biology Regardless of ideology What might save us me and you Is that the Russians love their children too

-- Atila (me@somewhere.com), February 11, 2003.

Sorry, couldnīt get those line breaks.

-- Atila (me@somewhere.com), February 11, 2003.

Atila I like these sorts of games...

"Holy War" by Matthew Sweet 1990

I've spent twenty years learning to live In a world that takes back all that it gives But I do not want a war

I don't know what's going on In the scenes behind I worry about it some of the time And I hope there's not a war

And I would walk across highways To find my fate If that might settle your crude debate But I do not want a war

Feeding the promised land With your blood by my own hand At allah's own command At allah's own command

I came up from the desert and here I will die Tooth for tooth and an eye for an eye Though I didn't want a war

'Cause I'm not in for killing another man Defending my holy land As if there's a god who would understand As if there's a god who would understand Oh yeah...

-- kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), February 13, 2003.

Someone stop me I could post music lyrics all night, not really what this forums for ;-0

"Bushleaguer" Pearl Jam 2001

How does he do it? How do they do it? Uncanny and immutable. This is such a happening tailpipe of a party. Like sugar, the guests are so refined.

A confidence man but why so beleagued? He's not a leader he's a Texas leaguer. Swinging for the fence. Got lucky with a strike. Drilling for fear makes the job simple. Born on third. Thinks he got a triple.

A think tank of aloof multiplication. A nicotine wish and a columbus decanter. Retrenchment and hoggishness. The aristocrat choir sings, "What's the ruckus?" The haves have not a clue. The immenseness of suffering. And the odd negotiation. A rarity. With onionskin plausibility of life. And a keyboard reaffirmation.

Blackout weaves its way through the cities. Blackout weaves its way through the cities. Blackout weaves its way.

I remember when you sang that song about today. Now it's tomorrow and everything has changed

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), February 13, 2003.

De do do do, de da da da Is all I want to say to you

De do do do, de da da da They're meaningless and all that's true

j/k

=)

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), February 13, 2003.

Of course Emerald! Ive got to get as much milage as I can out of this Papal authority while it lasts ;-)

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), February 13, 2003.

It is interesting to watch the war threads... how it shakes up the natural outlay of friend and foe on the forum. The alliances juxtapose themselves in the strangest ways...

Speaking of mileage:

I was thinking about this duct tape thing though. I find that this momentum could come in handy. I was thinking perhaps I really should prepare for the worst...

Perhaps I could convince the wife about the need for a month's supply of, say, beer...

You wouldn't believe what kind of frenzied twist the media is putting on things here. I hardly watch or listen to anything anymore, but lately I have a bit. It's all orchestrated if you ask me; the conclusions seem so foregone.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), February 13, 2003.

LOL Emerald youre in fine form these days! I would love to be in America right now to perhaps try and understand your views a bit better first hand. One day hopefully!

Lets pray for peaceful conclusion if possible, with war as only a last resort. God Bless

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), February 13, 2003.

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), February 13, 2003.

try again

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), February 13, 2003.

lol kiwi... you beat me to it this time. I was going to make some comment about duct tape being perhaps useful in solving difficult disciplinary issues around the house here, but thought better of it, and hestitated; you win the draw.

Should I get into this war issue or just shut up like I have been?

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), February 13, 2003.

Id love to hear your thoughts...

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), February 15, 2003.

I stopped watching the media 24/7..it is so anxiety-producing and invites so much anger.

I decided that I have no control over the situation, so whatever is going to happen is going to happen. All I can do is pray for peace, for some kind of miracle to take place so we do not have to go to war.

I have not purchased any duct tape, don't have to....hubbie has loads of it. We always have candles and water in the house...my husband is always prepared for an emergency. He is the kind of guy who keeps flashlights and batteries in the fridge for emergencies..guess it is his army background...I don't know..maybe he's just a nut! :)

Anything is possible with God and may He intervene.

ml

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), February 15, 2003.