are we supposed to treat all miracles as fact:

1 my chemistry teacher can turn water into wine. there is a substance that is apparently found in the Middle East in the water -- when you shake it, otherwise clear water turns red for a while. was this symbology or a true miracle

2 i have heard it said that the feeding of the 5000 had more to do with encouraging people to share the food that they all had brought with them, following Jesus' lead.

immaculate conception, resurrection, well these are essentials. the others???

-- I Wonder (water.wine@miracle.com), March 13, 2003

Answers

Yes, I'm a chemist and I can also cause a clear solution to turn red, several different ways. I have presented a "chemical magic" show for school kids quite a few times. However, I think the apostles would have noticed such trickery when they took it and drank it. It may look like wine, but of course it isn't wine. In fact, if they drank some of the concoctions used to produce such color changes, we never would have had the New Testament, because they wouldn't have been around to write it. I have also heard many of the absurd "explanations" offered by modernists in a futile effort to explain away the miracles of Jesus. Jesus encouraged the 5000 to share their food (I wonder why that would have amazed them so much?). They gave Jesus a drug that made Him appear dead, and later revived Him (seems like the spear thrust through his side might have done some damage though?). Jesus was walking on a sand bar when he called Peter out of the boat (so Peter didn't notice the sand under his feet, and then began sinking into it?). The little girl was not dead, but only in a coma, a condition that was not understood at that time. (of course, people in a coma still breathe). They stole the body, and then had another guy who looked like Jesus take His place ... and on and on they go, sounding more ridiculous with each new theory they invent. God created the universe. Therefore why is it so difficult for some people to accept that God can do remarkable thjings in the universe He created from nothing? Which is more difficult, to create a universe or to change water into wine? Of course, such people would also like to believe that God is not responsible for the existence of the universe. Unfortunately for them, there is no other rational explanation for the appearance of everything from nothing. Such an event is contraindicated by every applicable law of science. Therefore the origin logically must lie outside the realm of science. And likewise the source of miracles. Besides, we continue to see miracles today; at least those who are not blinded to truth by the senseless theories of modernist philosophies do.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 13, 2003.

I Wonder,

Ask yourself this question, if all of the miracles were somehow faked, then why would those such as the apostles (who absolutely would have known about the fakes and/or exaggerations) be willing to die such horrible deaths for their faith in Christ. They clearly found Jesus and all that He did to be genuine - worthy of sacrificing one's life for.

Then consider Paul . . . above the rest, he started as one persecuting the church and killing it's members in judgement thinking it to be a false religion full of fakery. He was miraculously converted having been confronted by Christ from heaven. What would cause an extremely intelligent and educated man such as Paul to abandon his skepticism to embrace Christ ultimately leading to his own brutal persecutions and execution that he experienced for his faith?

People don't do that for fakes - many wouldn't even be willing to do that for the truth. How much more must the reality of Christ and His miracles be then? Think about it.

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), March 13, 2003.

A thought comes to mind immedialty regarding this post. Thomas the Apostle was away during the time of the first re-appeance of Christ after the Crucifixion. He doubted the man in front of him was Christ.

When asked to put his hand in the wounds of Christ he then came to believe. I believe Thomas was given the gift of humility then in spades.

" Blessed are those who have not seen yet still believe " That is us in the here and now. A matter of being the gift of faith from the Father through the Risen Christ.

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), March 13, 2003.

people, thank you for yr speedy and convincing responses to my query. i often think that the Apostles had it easy in the sense that they witnessed all/most of this first hand. this is not mean to sound ungenerous because they in turn had some tough work to do once blessed with their faith. The Thomas post is certainly thought provoking.

-- I Wonder (water.wine@miracle.com), March 13, 2003.