I thought that to receive communion a person had to be confirmed but I was told today in a theology lecture that First Communion occurs before Confirmation. Is that right and if so does it mean the First Communion is seen as a sacrament as well?

-- India Crewe (indiacrewe@hotmail.com), March 24, 2003

Answers

First Communion is definitely a sacrament. Every time you receive the Holy Eucharist, it is a sacrament. And, yes, First Communion usually occurs before Confirmation. Nowadays, Confirmation is put off until 7th or 8th grade, but it used to be that 3rd and 4th graders would receive confirmation, while 1st graders receive First Communion. All my children, grades 3 - 6 are being confirmed this spring. Yea! :)

-- Isabel (isabel@yahoo.com), March 24, 2003.

India

Confirmation is one of the Sacraments of Christian Initiation. The other two are Baptism and the Eucharist. Confirmation and Eucharist can be celebrated in either order. The original order in which these Sacraments were celebrated was Baptism, Confirmation and finally First Eucharist. This is still the way that adults would be received into the Church today. As far as children receiving their Sacraments, this would depend on which way your particular diocese celebrates. It is becoming increasingly common for children to receive them in the same order as adults, i.e. Baptism, Confirmation and finally Eucharist. The age at which children receive the Sacraments of Confirmation also varies according to local custom. Here the norm is for children to receive Confirmation at aged 8, followed a few months later by First Eucharist. Some dioceses would have a joint celebration. In yet other dioceses children wouldn't receive Confirmation until aged 11 or 12, and I believe in some it would be as old as 18.

I hope this is of help to you.

God bless

Sara

-- Sara (Sara@yahoo.com), March 24, 2003.

I think they try to do both First Communion and Reconciliation around 7 or 8. Confirmation is later, around the teenage (13-14) years.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 25, 2003.

Hi GT the trend today at least in my part of the world is often for confirmation to occur before the children recieve their first holy communion.

I always though of it as a passage into adulthood and a realisation of spiritual maturity- an important individual decision to make for a young person in regard to their commitment to God.

Hmm I cant even really remeber what it was all about, just a group of bored teeenagers listening to a priest rattle on about becoming adults. Shocking eh.

Certianly it was made clear to me that it was up to ME not my parents to decide whether I became confirmed. Now that empowerment and decsion making has been taken away from young people. Why? What is the rationale behind this move for young children to be confirmed??

I understand that the age of the body does not affect the soul and that comnsequently even in childhood man can attain the perfection of spiritual age which occurs through confirmation but it seems a bit strange to me to become confirmed at such a young age. I also belive that one must be baptised in order to be confirmed but that makes more sense to me.

Anyway any thoughts on why this change in age of confirmation has occured?

-- kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), March 25, 2003.

Kiwi,

The Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation are very closely connected. In both sacraments we are called by name and anointed with the oil of Chrism, We first receive the Holy Spirit at Baptism, and then at confirmation we are sealed by the gift of the Holy Spirit, indeed the actual words of confirmation are: ‘Be sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit‘ . Both of these Sacraments mark our souls permanently, they can only be received once. Normally Confirmation is conferred around the time of Pentecost as this was the time the Holy Spirit was sent to the Church. Children receiving Confirmation at a young age is actually not a new thing. Indeed if a newborn baby is in danger of death, he or she would be confirmed as well as baptised. You will no doubt remember that the Apostles taught that even if a person had been baptised by water, then they still had to have hands laid on them to become full members of the Christian community, and they would go around performing the ‘laying on of hands’. This is why the bishop today is the ‘ordinary’ of the Sacrament of Confirmation. By celebrating the Sacraments in this order, i.e baptism, confirmation and then Eucharist, the link between baptism and confirmation is emphasised. In the Easter Rite the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation are celebrated together, indeed these sacraments were only originally separated for practical reasons - (that the bishop couldn’t complete the laying on off hands, because of the increase in infant baptism). The reception of the Eucharist completes the initiation into the Church, and therefore it is often now deemed fitting in the Latin Rite that this Sacrament should be the last of Sacrament of Initiation to be received.

(p.s. the dove that we connect with Confirmation, is because of the dove that was seen to have descended upon Jesus when he was baptised, as well as fire this is now seen to be a symbol of the Holy Spirit).

hmmm, one last thought on this. Children receive the Eucharist at what we Church would consider the age of reason. They are deemed able to understand that they are physically receiving the Risen Jesus. The concept of them being sealed with the Holy Spirit in Confirmation is perfectly explicable to children. The catechising of children about the Holy Spirit doesn't stop at that age either, just as it doesn't stop for any other area of our faith, even as adults we are hopefully learning all of our lives. The Holy Spirit works in the children as well as us adults :-)

Blessed be the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete!

Sara

-- sara (Sara@yahoo.com), March 25, 2003.

Sorry, I should have also mentiioned that although the bishop is the Ordinary of the Sacrament of Confirmation, he can and sometimes does delegate authority to celebrate this sacrament to his priests.

Sara

-- Sara (Sara@yahoo.com), March 25, 2003.

Sara, do you have any teenagers? They are often clueless about a lot of things due to their immaturity. :-)

I thought that 12 or 13 was still too early to be accepting such an important sacrament (to me, it carries the importance and gravity of marriage), particularly since the minor child (same as with Baptism, First Communion, and Reconciliation), is not making the decision to do so of his/her own free will, but really only doing what the parents wish. How can Confirmation be seen as the serious sacrament it is when there is no free choice involved? Why not delay it, and let people ask for the sacrament, as adults do with marriage, then have them go through the preparation? Just my $0.02.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 25, 2003.

GT

Firstly, I have four teenagers. All of my children received the Sacrament of Confirmation at aged 11, I have no doubt whatsoever that they understood at an agea ppropriate level. That is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church asks us to do: to catechise at an age appropriate level. As I said earlier, the catechesis doesn't stop when they receive each individual sacrament. I would hope that none of us understand any of the sacraments as adults in the same way as we did as chldren, just as we understand more of life as we mature. I would reiterate that the Holy Spirit works within each of us. our level of perception/understanding doesn't affect the grace that we receive on reception of any of these sacraments.

Children with profound learning difficulties can receive the sacraments and receive many benefits from them.

We don't have to be intellectually mature people to receive great benefits. The Risen Jesus is the Risen Jesus, regardless of how much of Him we understand when we receive Him. We don't change Him, and we don't change the Holy Spirit. Simple as that :-)

May God bless you

-- sara (sara@yahoo.com), March 25, 2003.

postscript to my last post...

Parents are the primary educators of children in the Faith. They are to be supported where possible by the Catholic school, and also by the parish to which they belong. Here Catholic schools follow a diocesan programme of Religious Education which includes, but is not solely, preparation for the sacraments. Normally children attending Catholic schools here would reach a level of readiness for each sacrament, according to their age. However, in cases where a child is not deemed ready by the priest then he may refuse to confer or present a child for confirmation. If a child doesn't attend Catholic school the parent must show that the chlld is adequately prepared, and to determine this a priest would ask the child some questions, again according to age. Children with Special Educational Needs (learning difficulties) would be catechised according to their level of capability, and may then go on to become full members of the Body of Christ, the Church Family. These special children can be a light to all of us and have a special place within our Churc. The Holy Spirit does indeed work in them, and many astonishing stories of things that happen to/with these children have been reported by their parents'educators when working with them in relation to their Faith.

Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on us, melt us, mould us, fill us, use us!

Sara

-- sara (sara@yahoo.com), March 25, 2003.

Please forgive my typing errors in my previous posts.....I get carried away in my enthusiasm, and don't proof-read properly!

God bless, Sara

-- sara (sara@yahoo.com), March 25, 2003.

Hi Sara,

What I was referring to is the emotional (as well as rational) judgement when you are confirmed. You can be a cradle Catholic, have all the "right" upbringing, go to all the CCD classes etc. and still not be ready to be Confirmed, because the faith is not yet in your heart.

Is an 11-year-old really going to tell her parents "I don't want to do this because...., or is a priest going to tell the parents I'm not going to recommend your child for Confirmation because....? I've never heard of it, and I doubt it happens much, if at all. Wouldn't it be better to wait until a person feels he or she is truly ready for this?

The younger a person is when these sacraments are received, the less connection they have to them, imho.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 26, 2003.

GT,

You're obviously entitled to your opinion :-) However, what you're saying doesn't at all reflect what goes on in my part of the world. As for priests refusing to confer sacraments if someone isn't ready, I can assure you that they most definitely do.

I can only speak from the experience I have in my country/culture of course, both in my own family life and within the Church in my work.

God bless

Sara

-- sara (sara@yahool.com), March 26, 2003.

Sara, are you in the US also?

What I have seen, is that it is a real struggle to get children into any kind of religious education, especially when they are involved in extracurricular sports. Some of the coaches actually have the attitude that sports are more important than ANYTHING else, and cut the kids from teams when they miss practice for any reason short of death in the family. Sports seem to be the worst for this, I haven't seen where band teachers or the debate coach engage in this practice.

My sister taught religious education for a year, and she had parents who came to her with this problem all the time, which is really sad. Sometimes she would only have one student in her class.

My experience was kind of like Kiwi's, but it was just "expected" we would be ready for and want this sacrament, we were not asked our opinion (and just think of what the parents would say if you told them "no"). That's where I'm coming from, and why I think it is given too early for most people. :-)

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 26, 2003.

GT

No, I'm not from the US.

Incidentally if parents choose to allow their children to go to extra- curriculur sports activities to the detriment of learning about their faith, then I would say the problem is with the parents.They need to look at their priorities. As in all areas of our lives, parents are the first educators of children, and as such have a responsibility to ensure that the child learns about his/her faith.

Sara

Sara

-- sara (Sara@yahoo.com), March 26, 2003.

When did the practice of receiving first communion arise in the Roamn church. To my knowledge the Anglican Communion does not.

-- WILLIAM ALLAN PLUMMER (remmulp@stny.rr.com), June 23, 2003.

William,
We are not familiar with the "Roamn church" here.
This is a discussion forum for members of the "Catholic Church" and for non-Catholic visitors.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 23, 2003.

Dear William,

The practice of receiving Holy Communion arose in the Holy Catholic Church at the Last Supper, when Jesus Himself distributed Holy Communion to His Apostles, and then commanded them to continue the practice in remembrance of Himself. Two thousand years later, His Church still obeys that divine command, and will continue to do so until the end of time.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 23, 2003.

Hello Everyone, At the risk of going off at a tangent; whilst reading this thread, it inspired me to ask a question which has plagued me for the past year. Whilst I am not yet a Catholic, I am going to approach my local Priest this week about starting the process; I am concerned for my children's religious education. I applied to send them to Stella Maris, which is the local Catholic primary school, however, as it is the only Catholic school(Apart from it's senior counterpart, Marist, the High School) for almost 100 miles, it is very hard to find a position. I would have been able to get my daughter into the school (just), but not my son, as his class was filled to capacity. Well, as I want my children to get both religious instruction (on a daily basis) and a good overall education, I have sent them to the Christian School which is about 15 miles away. The school accepts any religious denomination, and provides 'generic' religious instruction so as not to show preference to any one religious denomination, even though the school itself is run by the Seventh Day Adventists. I can't fault the school in most respects, as it places a high regard for academic excellence, which pleases me greatly, but I can't help thinking that The Church may take a dim view of the children being taught in a Christian, yet non- Catholic school. I have come to believe it is important to give the children a good grounding in their faith, and whilst the Christian School isn't teaching against the faith, as such, it also isn't setting them up for their religious life, as Catholics. How will this affect my children's chances of receiving the Sacraments with me? I wish to have them baptised into the faith at the same time as myself. While I don't want to disappoint my family (who are Anglican, although I was never baptised in the faith, for reasons, I won't go into here),or unsettle the children unduly, (I sent them to the public school which is right next to our home for the first 2 years of my daughter's education and the first three of my son's, prior to sending them to the Christian school, this year), I feel I have to be true to myself,and so believe that as soon as I am able to find a position in the Catholic School for my children, I shall move them there. Sorry for prattling on so. If anyone could help me concerning this matter, I'd be very grateful. May God bless you all, Seonad

-- Seonad (Shona) (gonetroppo_31@yahoo.co.uk), July 23, 2003.

There is no such thing as "generic" religious instruction. ANYTHING you teach about God, faith, or salvation will be in agreement with the teaching of some Christian traditions, and will be directly opposed to others. This is the tragedy that Protestantism has brought upon Christianity. You would find this to be true in any school claiming to have a Christian identity. But 7th Day Adventists!!! I guarantee that any instruction received at their hands will be not just non-generic, but specifically anti-Catholic. They are one of the most openly hostile anti-Catholic sects, and publish all kinds of grotesque anti-Catholic literature, making the most ludicrous and sacriligeous claims against the Catholic Church. And even if that were not so, their theology is sufficiently far removed from true Christianity as to make them marginally Christian at best. Your children would be far better off with no "Christian" education at all, other than that which you provide at home, than to be subjected to the proselytizing of such a group. If you can't get them into the Catholic school, send them to the public school until there is an opening. They may not receive faith instruction there, but at least they won't have the beliefs of their faith intentionally subverted and directly attacked.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), July 23, 2003.

Thank you for your thoughts in this matter, Paul. I have to say, I am shocked to hear that the Seventh Day Adventists have such a set against the Catholic church. We were required to acknowledge our faith on the application form for the school, and so they must know the children are (or more specifically, will be) Catholic; and yet, I have not seen any indication of them belittling our faith. Perhaps I should have a talk with the Headmaster to see his precise views. If you feel that strongly about it though, I shall certainly adhere your advice and look to make more suitable schooling arrangements. Thank you again, and may God grant you and your loved ones, peace. Seonad.

-- Seonad (gonetroppo_31@yahoo.co.uk), July 23, 2003.

I really should have provided you with some resources, not just my own opinion, on such an important issue. Here is a good, well-balanced Catholic perspective on the Adventists ...

http://www.catholic.com/library/Seventh_Day_Adventism.asp

And here is one of their own websites. Scroll down to the section entitled "Mystery Babylon" ...

http://www.biblelight.net/

Peace!

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), July 23, 2003.

Seonad,

I do not know what country you are writing from, but here in the United States every parish has a weekly class for those students who do not attend the Catholic School. Perhaps you could check with your parish and ask if they offer this program. Again, in the US, it is called either CCD or PSR.

-- Glenn (glenn@nospam.com), July 23, 2003.

Your parish may also do it with a home curriculum--I forget what it is called--but our parish does not hold the traditional "after school" CCD classes or even weekend classes. If the parents do it at home, it is easier to schedule the other activies (sports, etc.).

Public school may well be worse, although since your taxes are paying for it, you may as well take advantage of it as daycare if not as educational (sad to say).

Be sure and check out your Catholic school--find out how many students are from Catholic families--in some places, they don't even require daily attendance at Mass because a significant number of students are NOT Catholic....

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), July 23, 2003.