Hi everyone.

I've spent these last months thinking, praying and meditating about the way God, our Father, loves us. A couple of days ago I was reading John 17 and it shocked me completely, almost blowing my mind off when I reached verse 23 [B][I]"I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me."[/B][/I]!!!! Does God loves us the same way He loves Jesus? Is this possible? Do you realize that if this is true then God loves us in the same way He loves himself! that the love He has for His son, and the love the Son has for Him is so big, profoundly fathomless that it "produces" the Holy Spirit and then there is no difference between this love and the love He has for us?

I need some light on this, please.

God Bless you all.

In The Love of Jesus.

Cristian.

-- Cristian (gabaonscy@hotmail.com), May 06, 2003

Answers

Oh My God!!!

"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love." (John 15,9)

I'm going to faint!!!

-- Cristian (gabaonscy@hotmail.com), May 06, 2003.

God IS love, Cristian. He loves us perfectly, completely. The love He has for us cannot be measured, it's infinite. God the Father loves us so much that he sent his only Son to bring us salvation. If we could truly comprehend the depth of His love for us, we would commit no sins, indeed we would be saints in this earthly life. The Kingdom of God could be here and now.

-- Sara (sara_catholic_forum@yahoo.co.uk), May 06, 2003.

Cristian,

Wonderful revelation isn't it? That's why Jesus tells us to boldly approach the throne of grace, the throne of the Father. Why "boldly"? Because He loves us so much. We can through Jesus who clothes us with His righteousness and makes it acceptable for us to be reconciled to the Father and approach Him as Abba - Daddy!!!

The only part of your post that confuses me somewhat is when you said, "love He has for His son, and the love the Son has for Him is so big, profoundly fathomless that it "produces" the Holy Spirit". I'm not following you. Could you explain your thoughts a little more on your understanding of the Holy Spirit and how he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), May 06, 2003.

How much does the Father love us, Cristian? Enough to become man and die for us. Doesn't get to be any deeper of a love than that, wouldn't you agree?

God bless and keep you, Cristian~

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), May 06, 2003.

Here is a page containing a dialogue between a Catholic apologist and an Eastern Orthodox person on the procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father and/through the Son. (The subject of "personified love" is raised.)

Here is a scholarly theological article on the same topic, found in the old Catholic Encyclopedia.

[Other Internet pages are available to show that the Catholic teaching was held by the early Church Fathers, East and West.]JFG

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 07, 2003.

PS: Jackiea, God the Father did not become man and die for us. I think you know that, but you accidentallly left out a few words about the Son. Right?

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 07, 2003.

John,

Thanks for that link, it was most educational. I had never heard of these theological discussions before involving attempting to define how the Holy Spirit was begotten. And while it is interesting to consider such matters, it's clear in my view that any attempt to define how the Spirit was begotten is pure speculation. It's also interesting in that such speculations seems to be a major factor in the underlying schism between east and west. The east prefers not to doctrinally attempt to define what has not specifically been defined in scripture or in early councils while the west has a concept of doctrinal development that has no problem with such definitions (e.g., Transubstantiation versus Real Presence).

Interesting stuff.

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), May 07, 2003.

Thank you all for your responses.

What I actually want to know if it's theologically correct to say that we are loved by God The Father in the same way Jesus is loved by Him. The Gospel is full of passages where we can see how intimate Jesus and his Father were; Jesus was so focused on showing people how tender, loving and caring his Father was that the only way we can understand this is accepting that He actually experienced himself that kind of love... all that time He spent out in the forest speaking with Him are a sign of the intimacy of these two persons, He called Him Abba! and his primary concern while with his disciples was that his Father was glorified and known by everyone; the Father also didn't keep for himself the manifestations of the love He has for his Son and He said it publicly so everyone could hear that He loved Him and was pleased with Him... what kind of love! now, I don't want to be a pharisee, but to think God loves me that same way is way too much for me!. But if He does, I want to know!

Comments are welcome.

Cristian.

-- Cristian (gabaonscy@hotmail.com), May 07, 2003.

And the answer is . . . "YES"!!!!

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), May 07, 2003.

The answer to this lies in the nature of God's love, which is perfect. Human love is always imperfect. There are innumerable levels of imperfection, which is why we can love on a "sliding scale", loving some people more imperfectly than others. But God's love is perfect. There are not different levels of "perfect". It is an absolute. Therefore, to love perfectly necessarily means to love unconditionally, and equally. The only way God could love one person less than another would be to love both persons imperfectly, which would be a violation of the very nature of God.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), May 07, 2003.

Pretty good point, Paul, pretty good! Thanks.

John? no comments?

Cristian.

-- Cristian (gabaonscy@hotmail.com), May 07, 2003.

I have almost nothing to add, Cristian, because I like Paul's reply so much! I'll just mention ...

"God so loved the world that he gave his only Son [to die for us], that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.' [Jn 3:16.]"

This is a boundless love, isn't it?

JFG

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 07, 2003.