It would be very interesting to hear what the Sisters of Mercy have to say about the film MAGDALENE SISTERS, where they are depicted as anything but merciful.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), August 08, 2003

Answers

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-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), August 08, 2003.

The movie could be true. But we have to remember that the protestants were no better. But you would never see a movie about how protestants were horrible people. That just wouldn't sell in the U.S. There is just this inherent anti-Catholic bias in modern media. This bias wasn't always this way though. I wonder why the change.

-- Scott (papasquat10@hotmail.com), August 08, 2003.

your real point being exactly what??

c'mon. spell it out and let's debate.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), August 08, 2003.

In its "2002 Annual Report on Anti-Catholicism," the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights said,

Miramax purchased the rights to "The Magdalene Sisters," an Irish movie written and directed by Peter Mullan. The film is based on the allegedly cruel behavior of Irish nuns who maintained homes for wayward girls in the 19th and 20th centuries. The film won the Golden Lion award at the Italian Venice Film Festival. Mullan has been quoted as saying: "There is not much difference between the Catholic Church and the Taliban"; "The film encapsulates everything that is bad about the Catholic Church"; "The worst thing about the Catholic Church is that it imprisons your soul, your mind, and your d---." On September 24, William Donohue sent a letter to the board of directors of the Walt Disney Company —- owners of Miramax -— asking them to sever their ties with Miramax.

A very recent "USA Today" article says,

The Magdalene Sisters, Scottish director Peter Mullan's exposé of laundries where about 30,000 "wayward" young Irish women were systematically abused, has won awards, condemnation and even an apology. ... Fathers could condemn their daughters to the laundries as virtual slaves if they flirted, had a baby out of wedlock, or were raped. After years of psychological, physical, and sexual abuse, the last Magdalene Asylum in Ireland closed in 1996. ... No one has disputed the accuracy of "Sisters" ... Indeed, the only complaint has come from victims who say their treatment by the Magdalene nuns in various countries was worse than depicted. ... England's "Guardian" newspaper called it "celluloid incendiarism, rabble-rousing cinema with a delirious, delicious edge of black comedy." The Vatican condemned it, with the Vatican's newspaper calling it an "angry and rancorous provocation." ... one of the USA's largest orders of nuns, the Sisters of Mercy of the Americas, issued a statement saying, "We grieve with all victims and pray that they experience God's comfort and healing in their lives." Louis Giovino, director of communications for the Catholic League, says the film is part of an anti-Catholic trend. "This is the hip thing to do, and it has been for years," Giovino says. "If you make a movie that's critical of the Catholic Church, it's a hit."

The "Munster (Ireland) Express" said, As a visual document recording a history still all too fresh in the memories of those unfortunate souls who were condemned to them, the film charts another aspect of Ireland's past that is unpalatable and almost unbelievable. The Magdalene Asylums in Ireland were run by the Sisters of Mercy on behalf of the Catholic Church. Young girls were sent there by families or orphanages and once there, were imprisoned and sent to work in the laundries where they could atone for their sins. Their sins varied from being an unmarried mother to being too pretty or too ugly or simple minded or too clever or being a victim of rape and talking about it. And for their sins they worked 364 days a year unpaid, they were half starved, beaten, humiliated, raped, their children forcibly removed from them. Their sentence was indefinite. Thousands of women lived and died there.

Arts critic Anna Battista wrote, Everybody was talking about Peter Mullan's "The Magdalene Sisters" ... The film focuses on the so-called Magdalene Asylums, proper laundries scattered all over the UK and Ireland and run by nuns, in which unmarried women who had given birth to babies, women who had led unchaste lives, or who were simply too beautiful and therefore easy prey of temptation, were interred and obliged to expiate their sins by working for 364 days a year without being paid. ... Mullan's "The Magdalene Sisters" is set in Ireland in 1964 and tells the story of four of these girls, Margaret, Bernadette, Rose and Crispina, who have to expiate their "sins" in a Magdalene Asylum that is actually a proper prison rather than a convent. Starting with the story of Margaret, raped by her cousin and consigned to a Magdalene asylum as punishment for "having been raped," the movie explores the psychological and physical tortures to which the girls were submitted to by the Sisters of Mercy, who are portrayed as greedy and evil prison guards. Beaten, their heads shaven, deprived of their rights, humiliatingly exposed and laughed at in a cruel game, the girls of "The Magdalene Sisters" win all the same over the injustices of the nuns who hypocritically cry at the Tinseltown Sister Benedict played by Ingrid Bergman in "The Bells of St. Mary's", but do not show any pity in real life. The day after the movie was screened, the critics divided in two factions, those who supported the movie and those who attacked it and claimed it was a scandalous and anti-clerical film. "Ridiculous and infamous" proclaimed a critic from the pages of the Catholic newspaper "L'Avvenire"; "angry and rancorous provocation" the newspaper "L'Osservatore Romano" added, while only one of the national Italian TV channels ... dared to screen two whole minutes of the film trailer and a whole minute of interview with Mullan. The other channels simply ignored the movie. More negative comments were expressed by the clergy led by Cardinal Tonini, who wondered if what was shown in the film had really happened and wasn't a fantasy conjured up by Mullan. ... The fuss and fret over "The Magdalene Sisters" and its director Peter Mullan, condemned by the Catholic critics and by the Italian clergy for having compared the Catholic Church to the Taliban in an interview, continued for a couple of days after the screening, then suddenly stopped and the Venice Film Festival went on. ... "The Magdalene Sisters" was hailed by the Vatican Radio as "unpleasant and offensive" and severely attacked a week after the Venice Golden Lion by Cardinal Camilo Ruini ...

A September article in Britain's "Electronic Herald," says, Linda Mahood, a professor of history at the University of Guelph in Canada, who has documented the abuses at Magdalene Asylums in Ireland and world-wide, pointed out that similar "child-saving" institutions were run by Protestant churches. She said: "In Victorian times there was a middle-class belief that poor children were 'at risk' of abuse from parents who were considered drunken, work-shy beasts who neglect their miserable children, if not actually schooling them in vice and crime."

There has apparently been no loud comment about the film from the Sisters of Mercy of Ireland -- assuming that the group that ran the "laundries/asylums" even exists any more. Like the Franciscans, the "Sisters of Mercy" is actually a aggregation of many independent congregations in many nations. Even if some of the Sisters in Ireland did evil things, we can't let this reflect badly on "Sisters of Mercy" in other parts of the world.

A.

-- Art (ars@gratia.artis), August 08, 2003.

Scott, Where have the "Protestants" institutionalized such brutal treatment of their "wayward" young ladies and perpetuated the practice for such a lengthy time? I am unaware of any such example. I suppose the fanatical Islam communities had similar abuses (some probably still do), and likely even outrightly murdered their condemned young ladies, but I am curious to know of any other world religion, particularly any Protestant group, that has likewise treated its own members as did the Sisters of Mercy laundry sweatshops and sanctioned such.

-- John (jcs12367@juno.com), September 01, 2003.

John JCS12367, in reply to your question about Protestant groups, I must refer you to the paragraph in my earlier message, wherein I quoted from Britain's "Electronic Herald." If you want more details, you'll have to contact the woman mentioned by the "Herald" =====> Linda Mahood, a professor of history at the University of Guelph in Canada, who has documented the abuses at Magdalene Asylums in Ireland and world-wide, pointed out that similar "child-saving" institutions were run by Protestant churches.

A.

-- Art (ars@gratia.artis), September 02, 2003.

Every major world religion is good AND bad. This movie is a one-side example of how the film industry focuses on the negative aspects of Catholism. Deal with it! Moreover, why should a movie offend those with a strong faith? Understand and know that in the name of God: people were tortured, cities were burned, and knowledge destroyed. Embrace the errors of past and learn from them to prevent it from happing in the future. This is a lesson for EVERY religion.

-- Carmen Carr (carmen_car@hotmail.com), September 06, 2003.

I just saw the film and appalled at the behavior of the nuns. Having been brought up catholic alot of feelings emerged as I was watching this. the convents i was in as a child, having an aunt as a nun, were anything but a happy place. the fear that was instilled, was not pleasant. I have just recently left the church after having brought up my three girls catholic and have become a member of a non denominational church that is so ALIVE, i could not believe i was walking into a place that CELEBRATED life and Jesus. It was such an exhilerating experience, again after NEVER having walked in to another church. I have since entered a church for a family function and felt like i was in a noncelebratory state. I do not believe i will ever be a part of this religion again. there are alot of good people don't get me wrong that are members of the catholic religion, bui it is still too primitive for me. there is too much power given to the top members.

-- karen mcmichael (see1432000@aol.com), September 06, 2003.

Your choice of a watered-down manmade semi-Christian sect and your rejection of the fullness of truth and grace God Himself provided for you is tragic indeed. But you have free will, and will have to live with, and answer to God for the choices of free will which you make, as we all do. I will pray that the Holy Spirit will guide you back home before you become addicted to the shallow emotionalism of you current church, and abandon truth forever. Emotionalism is not a sign of life. Truth and grace are.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), September 06, 2003.

So, Paul, what do YOU think of the Magadelene Asylums? Why should anyone ever believe an institution that ran such slave camps? Because it happened over such a long period of time, it was no random anomaly, it was what they really wanted. They only stopped because it ceased to be profitable.

Save everyone your bullshit moralizing. Your church was in the sale of human labor. it was IMMORAL and so is the Catholic Church to have done it and to run from it.

-- Eric (ecoli2000@earthlink.net), September 14, 2003.

So far not one of you have asked: "where is the documenation" where are the "interviews" of more than just three women. If there were 30,000 girls abused, don't you think someone could find 100 girls who wanted to expose the sistes?

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), September 14, 2003.

Do Penance or Perish by Dr. Frances Finnegan documents the abuse to the young women of Ireland, as does the Documentary Sex in a Cold Climate by Steve Humphries.

-- debbie colarusso (bertorusso@aol.com), September 17, 2003.

The Sisters of mercy, were ruthless and cruel women. In answer to the comment about pretestants behaving in the same way, this is not true. The way the asylums were run by the sisters was stictly to the chatholic faith, it was what they believed.

-- bob (bob@bob.com), October 13, 2003.

I don't know of anything in the Catholic faith that describes how to run a laundry. However, I was taught by the Sisters of Mercy from first grade through eighth, and found them to be charitable, intelligent, and holy women, teachers who provided the children under their care with a firm foundation in the Catholic faith as well as academic skills that would enable us to succeed in any high school setting. For all of this, I thank them. And also for the strict but caring discipline which, supplementing the guidance of my parents, helped me to achieve moral strength and character at an early age.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), October 13, 2003.

Well it happened. It is true, the movie shows the bad side of what can happen when faith and religion become corrupted and is abused by 'some' followers without any consequences. This just doesn't account for the Catholic religion, but every religion to ever exist. If you read the article, the movie was based on actual accounts of three women. One, who was sadly molested, another that gave birth out of wedlock and a orphan who gained attention from the opposite sex. In part, this movie shows two sides. One: How the principles and expectations of ones family can be to forbearing, for a child or teenager to handle. (Thus they break a rule or do something unapprovingly or have something so unconceivable to them, it is hard for ones family to accept.) And two: How the are punished for their crimes or sins they have committed in the eyes of their holy God and families. The girls were sent to this Asylum not out of choice, but because their family looked down upon them disappointingly. Sure there were the occasional bad apples, the real 'problems' of society. But it could have been handled differently. What human should have to suffer manual labor for years and never get paid for being a hooker? Or for being raped or even for smiling at that of the opposite sex? No human being has the right to be beaten senselessly or to be mocked at because they were born or chose a different lifestyle to live.

I think the prospective of this movie was to give the viewers a truth, the frightful truth of what can happen behind closed doors. Whether it be a church or a abby or a asylum such as this. I don't think the movie was made to mock the Catholic religion. But what these particular individuals (nuns) did, were wrong as well as the priest.

Now then, if you still doubt this movie wasn't based on actual events, maybe you should do a little research. Browsing on the internet, looking up a few stories on this most sensitive subject, I happened to find a article about 'Sisters of Mercy' apologizing for the past acts of Magdalene Asylums.

-- Someone You Knew (Giminini@hotmail.com), November 05, 2003.

After having viewed the film in question, and read your comments. I felt that I must add my own. Man's inhumanity towards man has no borders or religion.The evil that is meeted out by these creatures upon defensless individuals is an abomination and should rightly be condemed,but we would also be wrong to asssume that these barbaric acts are the sole property of this religion or that, please do not just see the habit and veil of the perpertrator but see beyond. We are all prone to evil from our very existance, it is when this evil becomes collective then there is "no holes barred" meaning, anything goes, whatever evil the mind can conceive is acted out upon those prisoners! I have to add at this jucture that we automatically think that the likes of myself who have donned the religious habit are all called to this life of service and self giving in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, as someone commented, to enter the convent or priesthood in rural Ireland was not always the individauls choice!! it was pressure from parents ect. that pushed these souls (without a vocation) into this way of life, hence their bitterness and anger was aften directed in ways that have become news worthy items. So to finish please remember, the evil one or whatever name you wish to give the beast, does not just reside in this religion or that, but enters into the hearts of those who cease to see any good in their fellow man and allows darkness to dessend.

-- Sr. M. Renate OSF (m.renate@btinternet.com), January 05, 2004.

Three cheers for Sister Mary Renate!

You put forth an admirable defense, Sister. Please know that most of us at this forum are orthodox Catholics who know better than to generalize, from the sins of a few -- in one congregation, in one locale -- to a condemnation (or even a suspicion) of other orders and congregations everywhere else. We love sisters and nuns, and are thankful for the self-sacrifice of every one of them who is faithful to the teachings of the Church!

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 05, 2004.

My husband and I viewed the Magadelene Sisters DVD recently, and I have been crying on and off for the 30,000 souls who suffered such torture. Watching the movie also opened some very painful memories for me. I received my elementary education at a Catholic grade school in Chicago, Illinois (during the late 1940's and 1950's), and I was taught by the Sisters of Mercy. These Sisters of Mercy had no mercy, and my memories of their treatment have not dimmed. These Sisters of Mercy were absolute bullies and monsters, and they ruled with absolute power. These Sisters of Mercy slapped, punched, and kicked us and pulled our hair. These Sisters of Mercy hated children, and my soul will never forgive them for their actions against God's most precious gift on earth.

-- Maryann Perkins (volvotwins@comcast.net), August 08, 2004.

Hi Maryann,

I'm sorry you had that experience with the Sisters of Mercy. There are good and bad people within religious orders just as there are in all walks of life. We do expect more from our clergy and its especially bad when their behavior causes children to become disillusioned adults.

I was fortunate. My experience with the nuns who taught me in grade school was tremendously positive. Sisters of Notre Dame de Namur left me with many good memories. They were kind and enlightened teachers.

I can understand how your experience strongly and will probably forever color your view. I have some friends who had similar experiences. But take heart, there are and have always been good and kind religious orders who have been terrific influences on the children they have taught. Its unfortunate that bad ones leave such a lasting mark.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), August 08, 2004.

Isn’t it strange how if someone was bullied as a child by, say, a married protestant teacher in a school run by the State, they never use that as a reason to condemn all protestants, all lay teachers, all married people, or the State and all its arms. But if anyone who does anything bad is somehow connected to the Catholic Church, people quite seriously claim the Catholic Church caused their evil behavior and that the whole Church must be evil!

Btw I was taught by nuns, religious brothers and laypeople. Some of the brothers and most of the nuns all steadfastly refused to use any kind of corporal punishment despite the severest provocation. In fact I would say it was we students who “abused” them! The only teacher who I would say used an excess of corporal punishment was a lay teacher. And yet he was also very popular with his pupils!

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), August 09, 2004.