Are Catholics awaiting/expecting the return of Elijah and Enoch?
Will God send Elijah and Enoch to us for one more final chance of repentance before the anti-Christ rules on earth, after which Elijah and Enoch will be martyred?

Could have Elijah made one previous return reincarnated as John the Baptist, as some believe?

I remember hearing the story of Enoch when I was a child, but I never connected this story with Catholic beliefs.

rod..

..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 08, 2003

Answers

No, this is certainly not a Catholic belief. It is one aspect of one of the myriad second coming theories which have been spawned within fundamentalist/evangelical Protestantism in the past hundred years. Elijah and Enoch, they say, are two individuals described in the Bible as not having undergone physical death. Therefore they must be the two prophets of Revelation 11, who (according to their interpretation) will precede Christ, prophesy against the Beast, be killed by the Beast, and then be Resurrected by Christ when He comes. This is necessary, they say, because the Bible tells us that all men die once. Since these two prophets didn't manage to die the first time around, they must therefore die at the second coming, in order to fulfill this word of scripture.

I wonder how they deal with the various people Jesus raised from the dead - Lazarus, the widow's son, the little girl. All of these people died twice.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), September 08, 2003.

Thanks, Paul.

I'm glad I asked. This one book I'm reading makes the assertion that the Elijah/Enoch story is a Catholic belief. This really got me puzzled; I'm glad I asked.

I always believed it to be a Jewish story/belief. rod

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 09, 2003.

Lazarus and others raised by christ didn't die twice in the way we know, because until Jesus died, no one ever saw heaven. It is believed that they along with Elias and Enoch were in the temporary resting place. Neither jesus nor his disciples, who were jews, said anything against those ancient articles. We see in the transformation, Moses stood with him along with Elias. Elias, who was taken by God, and Moses, whose death is a mystery, who was buried by angels, and who is perhaps the only person who saw God directly (God allowed him to this, so we know how God saw that man).

John the baptist himself said that He is not Elias. According to the ancient scripture, Elias would return before God's second coming. The main meaning is that, The might of Elias was in John the baptist. It was not that Elias would return in person, but his might and his faith and the power would be in this prophet, John. That is why God himself said that there is no one who was born by a woman, more mighty than John. The prophecy was fulfilled. God did not treat the ancient scriptures as myth. He came to fulfill them, and he did, to the fullest. This alone renders it impossible that the stories be treated as mere stories.

The revelation is not a simple book. God himself is the author. Even though it is filled with mysterious way of writings, it is not a myth or fiction. It is all true.

Before the end happens, there is the part of two "witnesses" or holy men. The belief about these 2 men are not a myth. It is written in the revelation even thought difficult to understand.

Revelation 11:3-6. They will be given the boon of prophecy. They will be given special powers to punish the earth. This may all seem like fairy tales, but the word of God never lies.

They will do it for 1260 days - ie 3.5 years. If anyone hurts them, they have the permission to hurt them very bad. This, is not a vision that John had. This part was explained to him by a very special Malaka - yes Jesus christ himself. Therefore, this part about these 2 holy men, is not John's words. Jesus himself is saying these words. We do not know why there are only two of them, or why two. They point towards law, and the scripture as far as we know.

It is a general belief that they are Enoch and Elias since they are not physically dead. Even St Mary had to die before ascending. These two are different from every other human beings in this wondeful and mysterious way.

But it is not them. Most probably they are Moses and Elias. I said a little about Moses and Elias in an above paragraph.

Let us see how the old testament ends in the bible. In Malachi 4-3 it says, "Before the mighty and frightening coming of God, I will send the prophet Elias to you".

Remember that the old testament is not a book of myth. Jesus and his disciples revered the prophesies and the books. So the old testament ends with a powerful statement that Elias would come before the Glorious coming of God. The might of Elias was with John the baptist, but Elias has to come. So what about Elias and Moses? Law and scripture. Moses is the great man who delivered the commandments. Elias is the greatest of all prophets. For the jews, these two are the most important humans.

Now, there are 2 comings of God. The first one is over, and John the baptist, the last of all prophets came before him. Now, Elia would come only at the end, the 2nd coming of God. God himself has said that he would send Elias before his day.So, like John came before the first coming, Elias has to come before the second coming.

It is intersting to see how God speaks of these two witnesses of God. He calls them as "my witnesses". He declares it powerfully, not as a mediator, but as God himself. Moses and Elias are the prophets of fate. Elias did not die. Moses's death is still a mytery. We know from the little clues in the bible that The archangel Michael fought for the body of Moses, over satan.

Moses represents Law, and Elias represents all the prophets. In Luke 9:30 and 24:27 we can see that. Now, they represent the whole church. It is written that they will be wearing rags. It represents repentence and sadness, from what we see throughout the scriptures.

Now, why are they wearing rags, when they are standing along with God himself? They should be wearing mighty clothes of happiness. But they are not, because it is the time of fate - judgement. It is not the time of celebration. It is a time of sadness because it is said that in the last time, our church would be so much hurt and destoryed from all sides. Therefore, it is a time of sadness.

Now, they will die after their work in earth is completed. Revelation 11: 7-13.

The antichrist will kill them. In the place where it is called Sodom and in representative language - Egypt, their dead bodies will lie. People from across the world and from all cultures will see those bodies and will not let the bodies be buried in tombs. This, is because they were a headache to the people of earth. BUT after 3 and a half days, they will live again and those who see them will be terrified. They will hear the sound "Come to me" from heaven. As their enemies look, they will go to heaven on clouds. Then there will be a big earthquake, and 1/10 of the city will be destroyed. 7000 will die. The rest became terrified and praised God.

So, the 2 witnesses would preach for 3 1/2 years. Then they were killed by the beast who came down from hell. This happened, at the same city where they crucified God. It is called Sodom and sometimes, Egypt. People were happy to see their deadbodies lieing there, without being buried.

So, they will come at the right time, just before the arrival of the anti christ. It is not said how they were killed. Jerusalem is the big city where they will be killed. It is given the names Sodom, and Egypt. Eshayya has before, called the authorities of Jerusalem, as the authorities of Sodom, and the people as people of Gomora, in Eshayya 1:9,10 and 3:8,9. Jeremiya has too done it in Jer 23,14. In the same way, Egypt too is compared, because of their idol worshipping and prostitution (Esakkiel 23: 3,4,8,19).

Now, they were not buried because in those areas, not burying the dead is considered as the greatest of insults and sins - Jeremiya *:2. 16:4 .It is the law that even the greatest criminal be buried the day he died - Deu 21:22,23.

Here, it is shown that the people have great hatred towards these two. They are celebrating their death. It is well known that they were a threat to the beast and his servants. The people became happy, because they thought that by the end of God's two faithful, they were saved. So they celebrated.

Now, until they died, they were preaching. After 3 1/2 days of their death, they returned to life and then they are not preaching. They are just standing there silently. The happy celebrating people are getting terrified suddenly. God called his two faithful from above, and the people saw them ascend. Then comes the fury of God and there comes a great earthquake into the city which destroys buildings and kills a lot of people.

One thing to remember. When Jesus christ died, and ascended, there were earthquakes, but there was no destruction. Those were the days of happiness and hope. Now, things are different. It is the day of judgement and fear. The question is, when so many miraculous things happen, would it not have any aftereffect? It is said that the remaining people were terrified and repented and glorified God. BUT that was not true repentence. The beast prevailed and the people once again followed it. Then, after all this, and the return of God's two faithful, the 7th horn will be blown and God will take over the world from the evil hands.

Revelation, though through John, is written by God himself. His words are not lies and myth. The old testament and its prophesies were not stories or myths. God himself fulfilled them, and held them with reverence when he lived as a man. The old testament, the new testament and revelation is all interconnected in the same way the past, preset and the future are connected.

This may all sound like too unreal to come true, but things have happened before and will happen again, and God's words are not lies. They are absolute truth.

Catholics, ie christians await the return of the God's two faithful as it is said by God. It is not Elias and Enoch, but from what the blessed scholars try to learn and interpret, are supposed to be Moses and Elias. As said in revelation, God will send them but it will be timed perfectly for their destruction, for that time will be when the church is in great suffering.

The story of the old testament from Adam, were considered by Jesus and his disciples. All Jesus did was fulfill the ancient prophesies, because it was God's words before he was born as man, when people were in a primitive stage and the temptation of idol worshipping and sins were great. Then times changed, and God came among us and gave us new laws of love, and gave us hope and clues about the future so that we may be prepared. As in the old testament, his words are not lies, but to be fulfilled.

The revelation is one of the most important parts of the new testament, where mysteries and mysterious writings tend to give us wrong ideas. The protestants and other sects, will forever try to interpret them as they think, but the holy church and its followers will never fall into lies and doubts, because we have been following his words for 2 millenia. People who wander off every now and then make up their own version, to their doom. The bible is not a work of art or a story book. Even the words of the old testament have so many deep meanings into the future. The words said by God, whether it be 10000 years ago or 2000 years ago, will never change.

Revelation begins with John saying that these things will be happening soon. How soon? Perhaps not so soon, but perhaps sooner than we think. Those who read it and hear the words of the last prophesies are blessed. Who better to say it than the man who is God's best friend, his disciple, and his son himself?

-- Abraham T (lijothengil@yahoo.com), September 11, 2003.

Our Lady at Lasalette did say that Elijah and Enoch were the 2 witnesses in Revelation 11. If these 2 witnesses are anyone else they would have to die twice. Since Our Lady appears in Revelation 12 it makes sense that the 2 other witnesses would represent the 2 other recorded assumptions in scripture

-- George Ayer (georgeayer100@hotmail.com), September 14, 2003.

Yes this is getting more mysterious. From what I know, the scholars considered the possibility of Enoch as the partner of Elias, but thought about Moses since he was the most important figure of the Jews, and his death is a mystery as well. Besides, the concept of prophets wasn't there at Enoch's time. Elias is defenitely one, but many scholars differ on opinion about his partner.

From what I have researched, the church has indeed approved that the apparitions at La salette. If it has, then there would be no doubt as it is Enoch the parter of Elias. I wonder then why the scholars would still be doubtful about Enoch, if they know about the apparition, and if the apparition is approved by the church. One thing that still troubles me is about Moses. At the time of the transformation, he and Elias appeared with our lord. I thought this had something to do with the coming prophets. From what I know, the official church opinion on the prophets is troubled, because many scholars differ in their opinions.

Thanks George Ayer, for mentioning the apparition at La Salette. I never heard of it before. It seems like it is not known as well as the fatima apparition and the apparition at Lourdes.

-- Abraham T (lijothengil@yahoo.com), September 14, 2003.

Church "approval" of a reported "apparition" consists of an official statement to the effect that the "messages" reportedly received through the reported apparition do not include anything specifically contradictory to Catholic teaching, and a permission for Catholics to believe in the reported "apparition" and its "messages" if they wish to do so. However, such reported "apparitions" fall into the general category of "private revelation", and nothing purpotedly received through such "private revelation", including approved cases like Lourdes, La Salette and Fatima, is granted official credence; is required belief for Catholics; or is used in the formation of official Church teaching. Therefore, if some new "information" regarding Enoch or Elias was purpotedly received through the reported apparitions at La Salette, Catholics would have the option of accepting such "information", but such new "information" would not be incorporated into the official teaching of the Church.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), September 14, 2003.