What do Catholics think of Halloweengreenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
Hi all i am a practicing Roman Catholic and was wondering what the Rcc think's of halloween.All information and history and explainations would be greatly appreciated.
-- Andrew m Tillcock (drewmeister7@earthlink.net), September 19, 2003
I do not know much about halloween because I hadn't even heard about it, until I came to west. I assume it is celebrated in the European continent only. I am not sure though.As a "fun" conception, halloween just fun for children. On a deeper level of thinking, Halloween is actually supposed to be all saint's day celebration, but the twisted form came unfortunately, as a reminder of ancient celtic rituals. The evil spirits and so on, are the reminders of the ancient celtic religion and tradition. I do not know when or how the change took place, but it has not become an evil celebration. Even though everyone dresses up as evil characters, it is just done as a fun factor only, as far as I know. I have heard one priest explain this to children. However, evul trends have also originated. The church connected it with all saints day, to counter pagan holidays, as is the case with easter and the december25. It was done to show the triumph of the one true God over idols and evil. In the case of halloween in didn't work well and even though it is mostly harmless, evil practices also are done in a minor scale.
This is all I know about halloween, and also as I said, I came to know about halloween only recently. It is possible that my information is wrong.
-- Abraham T (lijothengil@yahoo.com), September 20, 2003.
abraham,almost right. halloween is short for all hallows eve... it is the night BEFORE all saints day. the custom of dressing up comes from an ancient belief that evil could not find a person who was dressed up as someone or something else. while some people associate halloween with evil trends, theyre very wrong. finally, halloween is celebrated in almost every western country, n america and europe alike.
-- paul (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), September 20, 2003.
Halloween. It's just one more Catholic feast day (All Saint's Day) that has been railroaded, commercialized, and made into an excuse to have fun and glorify perversion. Then there's the issue of little kids dressing up like devils & witches & such and everyone thinking it's adorable. Taking the ugliness out of evil is a dangerous thing, IMO. Do I want to outlaw Trick-orTreating? No. I just think Catholic should celebrate Catholic feast days as Catholics.Look at Valentine's Day. St. Valentine gave his heart to his Beloved in the form of being martyred, yet his feast has been turned into something celebrating human sentiment and often even lust.
What can we say about poor St. Patrick? His feast day anymore is all about sodomites demanding their "right" (?!) to march and dance nearly naked in front of the Blessed Sacrament (housed in a New York City cathedral) and a Cardinal Archbishop, and for the rest of the population to become blindingly drunk and get into brawls. Again, a heroic bishop who almost singlehandedly brought the Catholic Faith to the pagan peoples of Ireland is reduced to someone in whose name people commit sin.
Mother's Day? An American invention, and a Protestantization of the Catholic custom of dedicating the month of May to the Blessed Virgin. Once again, a spiritual concept is hijacked and reduced to a natural, sentimental level.
Don't even get me started on Christmas & Easter...
-- jake (jake1REMOVE@pngusa.net), September 20, 2003.
Dang. Sorry.
-- jake (jake1@REMOVEpngusa.net), September 20, 2003.
The black African is shiftless, lazy and dumb. He is completely ignorant of the concept of responsibility and is prone to crime and violence. The average pure black African Nlgger has an I.Q. of about 40 points lower than the average White Among all these races, the black Nlggers of Africa are undoubtedly at the lowest scale of the ladder dubiously called the human race. We of the CHURCH OF THE CREATOR disclaim any common racial denominator with the Nlggers, the same as we do regarding monkeys. We regard them as either sub-human, or humanoid, and recognize them as being closer to the animal kingdom than any species of humanity as exemplified by the White
-- RIO TYU (E@WW.COM), September 20, 2003.
Jake abraham and paul thank's for the info, how did it get so twisted, And what is that response from RIO TYU please delete that.
-- (drewmeister7@earthlink.net), September 20, 2003.
Shalom Andrew,The following we pulled from our site called "Halloween or Holy Evening?".
In recent years we have seen and heard of many claims that the day called “Halloween” is a Catholic holiday. Nothing could be further from the truth. The only part of Halloween that these sources claim to be linked to a Catholic base is by name only and not the customs (which go back to Druids). But is this assertion of the name true? Well, we decided to do our own little research to see if there is a common root. Among all our findings we started to wonder if Halloween might not be the root of “All Holy Evening” but rather two words “hallow”, which means to be holy or consecrated and “ween” whose meaning we did not know. So we looked into our dictionary to see if “ween” had a meaning and we’re startled to find that it does. It means, “to suppose”, “guess”, or “fancy”. We found this particularly interesting because most Christian do “suppose” or “fancy” this night as holy when in fact it is far from holy! So what is really the origin of this celebration?
Originally All Saints Day came the week after Pentecost in Antioch and was instituted to honor all those who had been martyred in our faith. At one time we honored our martyrs on the day they died (like Saint Nicholas Day) but Pope Urban IV instituted this holiday to overcome the deficiencies he saw in the keeping of the individual feasts, so at its inception this was a Feast of Martyrs. This would have been complicated even more as more people died for our L-rd in the persecution of the Roman Emperor Diocletian (245-313) because their numbers would cause us to be celebrating one of their days for every day of the year. In 411 on the Chalde’an Calendar there was a "Commemoratio Confessorum" for the Friday after Easter, which venerated the sacrifice of the saints as well. Later Boniface IV set the date again to the 13th of May but this wouldn’t be the last change. Due to growing popularity of this feast day and the fear of running short of food, Pope Gregory IV moved the feast into the fall to take advantage of the plentiful harvest and thus it ended up on November 1st. We also understood that a vigil for this holiday was kept, but the details of this are not as clear; however, we know from what we could find that this was a Church Vigil or vespers and not “tricks or treats”. From all of this, we can clearly draw the conclusion that our fathers did feast on this holy day for eight days, beginning on the Hallow evening after the evening mass or vespers. Thus the “other stuff” we see has nothing to do with the ancient Catholic feast. So where did those other customs come from?
As to origins of the modern “celebration” we have to go back to the Druids (its original name Samhain) where there are roots to a Roman goddess Pomona who was the goddess of fruits and orchards, hence the custom of bobbing (or ducking) for apples. More roots came from the Druids and this will be made clear as we explain their customs. On this day the Druids felt that the dead walked the earth and they were said to terrorize the peoples. So their priests dressed as these horrid creatures under the claim that they would move among them to lead them out of town. Also the people were told to offer these “dead” sweet foods to pacify them in hopes that they would leave peaceably with the hidden priests of their tribes. As for the gifts given to the “dead”, the people knew that if they failed to give these gifts their homes could get burned and they themselves be dragged out to join the bonfires, and not as a spectator. What were those bonfires? These were great fires made of hay or another highly combustible substance which they built on the hill tops in the shape of a man (their god) and offered both human (not only of the uncooperative masses but enemies of war) and animal sacrifices to their god contained inside the human effigy.
Many say the modern “celebration” has little to do with these ancient customs, but the facts speak far differently. Consider that before this century Halloween was a time when acts of mischief, like overturning a shed or breaking windows. And these were not always mild events as can be seen from the pranks that leveled city blocks of Detroit in the 1970’s and 1980’s through acts of arson and from those who inserted razor blades or even poisoned the “treats” throughout our childhood back from the 60’s through the 80’s. So where did the custom of “trick or treat” come from? The common practice of “trick or treat” developed in the 1930’s with hopes of replacing some of this terror; although many just moved the terror to the day before calling it “beggar’s night” or “devil’s night” (a fitting name). And is there any wonder why we teach our children to say “trick or treat”? Is it not through the voices of those evil Druid priests who extorted foods and money from the masses in return for protection from the bonfires? After all, we in the modern world know that demons or the dead really don’t walk upon earth in that way. Scripture actually tells us that demons prefer a human body, although they may accept the body of an animal in pinch. Therefore if they did walk the earth among those Druid people they probably did so in the body of one of those vicious priests who built the bonfires the “demons” used to terrorize the masses!
As to All Holy Evening this was once a holy, righteous and highly important Catholic holiday (in fact it’s still officially an eight day feast) but something changed over the years. This isn’t the only holyday or holiday that has suffered; there is Christmas and Easter that have seen similar infections that are also highly damaging. In fact only Pentecost remains mostly pure, partially because we really don’t celebrate it much at all. So, has the damage to All Saint’s Day really caused it to fall so deeply that it can “no longer get up”? We believe this feast can be reclaimed but only if we as a Church are willing to take drastic measures. So what do we know of these feast days and what can we do to help us overcome this scourge?
1. The day (and evening) before this feast day is correctly called “devil’s night” because he does indeed seem to have taken away all meaning of the feast. And as few in our modern faith seem willing to call evil for what it is (that is they “suppose it holy”), perhaps we can fast the day before and afflict ourselves as our great saints were afflicted for their faith. This way we, as a body, can taste a little of the persecution they suffered. After all, do we really think those early Catholic missionaries who remained steadfast to our Church in these Druid homelands fared much better than the war criminals the Druids caught?
2. We can keep a vigil to await the end of the fast (as we also wait upon the return of the L-rd). And as the fast ends, blow a trumpet to sound the beginning of a great feast (like the wedding feast form our L-rd’s return). This great feast should be vegetarian because meats are harder to digest after fasting. We can set this in our own homes or better yet, we can gather as a community in the church hall. But how to separate this feast from the other parties?
a. Since all those who died in our L-rd are going to the wedding feast, might we create our feast to resemble the wedding feast of the Lamb? We can decorate each table with a white cloth and have white flowers mixed with palms (representing victory) as well. Colors of our dress could have white (victory) and blue (representing the Holy Spirit). Have a white cake (with sprinkles?) that speaks of the saints that gave their lives for us. We might also see if we can find some special foods for a special occasion. We also can have music at this celebration, possibly songs about martyrdom (ex. "Faith of our Fathers") or praise songs to our L-rd.
b. We know that all children cannot keep a fast (whether a whole day or partial) so we might be able to set aside a special place for them (maybe with those cooking and fixing the feast) where they could get their regular meals while the other adults in the community keep the fast. Another possibility (drawn from our experience during the Pesach Seder) is to have some finger foods available for the children who have trouble waiting as the evening goes on. This fast would help us mimic the feeling of the persecution of these great saints who suffered for the faith.
3. All Saints is not a single evening but really an eight-day holiday (an octave); so how might we make these feast last eight full days? At Chanukah we have the chunakiah (a menorah) where a light is lit for each day of the feast; and at Pesach we remove hamatz (leavening) from homes and eat unleavened foods throughout these days. Also we remember the Omer by counting it, but how would we connect the eight days we are to remember to those who died for our faith?
a. Local churches might sponsor special events during this week surrounding the lives of saints. This could include movies, plays or activities (your imagination is the limit). Whether this is done as a community or at home, but hopefully there would be one big event for the last day to close the octave.
b. Because this resembles a Catholic version of Succos, we may be able to borrow ideas from our brethren in their celebration of Succos. We suggest this because Succos has many Messianic overtones as does the Octave of All Saints; therefore we might be able to dwell in tents or keep a torch (or other light) burning or incorporate a mixing of water and wine was done during the ancient Temple service (this prefigured part of our Eucharist).
We admit that most of our ideas reflect back to our Jewish roots that Adonai has called to be kept, but this doesn’t mean this is the only route to take. What is most important is that we keep our focus and celebration upon our L-rd and what our Church has called in reflection towards Him. This why we teach both traditions, it gives ideas for both so that we can get the greatest meaning from the feast of our faith and also the tools to defend our Catholic faith. Thus, when told that we as Catholics celebrate the pagan holiday of Halloween, we can correct them because we have facts and also show them that we as a Church celebrate the Feast of All Saints, an Octave feast (eight day) where we remember all those great people whose blood made our faith possible. Who knows, this may give the opportunity to witness how Catholics truly follow G-d and may even allow us to invite them to our festivities.
“All Saints' Day [The vigil of this feast is popularly called "Hallowe'en" or "Halloween".]”, Francis Merseman, The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume I, Copyright © 1907 by Robert Appleton Company, Online Edition Copyright © 1999 by Kevin Knight
Also see The Handbook of Christian Feasts and Customs, Francis X. Wiser, see Drash.
by C.Foegen © 2001
Two years is a long time and the above site is really due for an update. We now begin the holiday with reading of the Beatitudes and each day we take one of these teachings of faith as well as read a parable that has a similar lesson. Also we devise games and teachings using sweets as incentives. For example last year for Yeshua's (Jesus') words: "the first shall be last and the last shall be first", so we baked a pie and divided it unevenly telling the kids they are to choose any one piece, but they cannot eat until we say so. Well, the first one usually grabs the biggest piece and the last one usually gets the smallest. So when we took our turn, we both switched pieces around so that last got the biggest and the first got the smallest. Unfortunately they learned this lesson so well (they have spoken often of this all year long) we have to think of another parable and lesson, but that's what these Catholic holidays are for anyway-right?
Shalom, C & C
-- C.Foegen (cfoegen@angelfire.com), September 21, 2003.
{Up for future study.}
-- (@@@.@), September 23, 2003.
[The following is copied from an October, 2000, thread about Hallowe'en. JFG]
The name, "Halloween," comes from "E[v]en[ing before All] Hallow[s]" -- that is, the night before "All Saints' Day."
In [a diocesan] weekly newspaper, a well-informed and faithful priest named Fr. William Saunders has been writing a column called "Straight Answers" since 1993. He takes a question from a reader and gives an expanded answer to it -- sometimes even requiring more than one issue to provide a full reply. ...
In the Autumn of 1997, a reader asked, "What are the origins of All Saints and All Souls Day. Are these linked with paganism and Halloween?"
If you would like to read Fr. Saunders's detailed reply (which was published in two parts), you can click here and here.
[Here is] the first paragraph to "tempt" you to read further:
"Both the Feast of All Saints and the Feast of All Souls evolved in the life of the Church independently of paganism and Halloween. However, elements of pagan practices were perhaps 'baptized' by some cultures or attached themselves to the celebration of All Saints and All Souls."
Father Saunders does mention Samhain .... He does not make a judgment about whether or not people should observe (or how they should observe) Halloween.
-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 23, 2003.
Uh, you people have way too much time on your hands if you are debating the merits/demerits of Haloween. Cripes, I was raised Catholic and my dad took me Trick Or Treating when I was a kid! That was in the 1960's! Geez, get over it! It's just a fun holiday. Get it? Analysis Paralysis...At least we went Trick Or Treating when I grew up instead of these dumb "Parties" the kids go to now. And the schools are so weird about Haloween. But they can have "Diversity Day" and other such crapola!!!
Get a life!
-- Bernard (hotrails@hotmail.com), September 24, 2003.
What about the celebration of the 3 Kings on Ephiphany? I actually think that will catch on more and more (as more Hispanics enter the US). It is a feast on January 6th, and celebrates the Biblical visit to the Christ child by the Magi, the 3 kings who present him with gifts of gold, frankensence and myrrh, thus the first "Christmas presents".When I was in the seminary we celebrated Christmas with piety and prayer, but then received our gifts on the feast of the 3 kings. This also allowed us to do our "last minute shopping" on December 26th, thus scoring all those 70% off sales!
The added bonus of this is that the characters (3 kings) on a camel, a horse, and an elephant, are biblical, and far more religious and noble minded than some fat red elf who flies through the air on a sleigh pulled by reindeer.
I think as we create our own family traditions we're going to down play the Santa-claus bit and highlight the Kings.
For Halloween, I think we'll start dressing up as saints and martyrs and have a party on All Saints Day.
If enough Catholics did this, and enough "marketers" responded, I think the whole shee-bang would change for the better.
-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), September 25, 2003.
I think as we create our own family traditions we're going to down play the Santa-claus bit and highlight the Kings.Not to mention the King of Kings!
For Halloween, I think we'll start dressing up as saints and martyrs and have a party on All Saints Day.
Fantastic idea! Why let pagans pervert our holy day? Reclaim it!
If enough Catholics did this, and enough "marketers" responded, I think the whole shee-bang would change for the better.
This is true of a lot of things. Wise words, Joe.
-- jake (jake1REMOVE@pngusa.net), September 25, 2003.
The added bonus of this is that the characters (3 kings) on a camel, a horse, and an elephant, are biblical, and far more religious and noble minded than some fat red elf who flies through the air on a sleigh pulled by reindeer.perhaps more biblical, yes, but not necessarily more reliously noble. before insulting that fat red elf, consider that santa claus (aka SAINT NICHOLAS) is based around a catholic saint. to merely dismiss a saint as an insignificant fat guy in a red suit would be less than kosher, in my opinion. perhaps, however, you have a point. instead of elf with reindeer, tell it how it really was... saint with sleigh delivering handmade gifts to local children. children dont need their stories destroyed, joe, they need them brought back to the real religious basis. make them understand the religious significance of saint nick and youll increase their faith more than by just dismissing him. in the meantime, keep the kings idea as well, thats a good one.
-- paul (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), September 25, 2003.
Jake,All ,Thank's for your responses i especially like the article (JAKE)Although it does make me wonder about how we let some of these holy,Day's that originated in such different meanings become some lost in today's society....Pondering it Pax
-- Andrew m Tillcock (drewmeister7@earthlink.net), September 25, 2003.
OOPS!! meant to thank J. F. Gecik for the article>Thank's again
-- Andrew m Tillcock (drewmeister7@earthlink.net), September 25, 2003.
Pace, Paul, but the modern day incarnation and marketing of Santa is only analogously similar to Saint Nicholas. It was a Coca-Cola marketing strategy if I'm not mistaken (or succumbed to some urban legend) that established the new "story" of magical modes of flight, North Pole HQ, thoroughly pagan (non-Christian) ontology.In short, the pagans baptised a Christian saint and season! The co- oped our feast day, and then turned around via the Supreme Court and "laws" and told US that WE couldn't mention Jesus Christ or any image of the same!
You can't "Christianize" Santa Claus because he is the paganization of Saint Nicholos. All you can do is jettison the deer, sleigh, and North Pole deal, and return to a new appreciation of the Saint who did drop gifts down chimneys and give sacks of gold to the poor, raise two girls back to life and preach the love of children and the Christ-child.
As for children and their beliefs.... guess what? Just when you begin teaching them that God exists...and that Santa exists... they begin to be told by older children that Santa is a myth. When they hit 9 or 10 they're suddenly wise to the game, and it doesn't take much for them to ASSUME that this whole God exists and loves you thing isn't also a myth foisted on them by adults who really know it's a lie TOO.
Think about it. Parents tell their children a lie - a myth, go through elaborate cultural rituals (leading them on), only to reveal that these earnest claims of veracity were really all fun and games!
"Hey, no harm done" "So long as no one gets hurt!"... but what is hurt is their trust and your moral authority as a parent who can be trusted to tell the truth about life, the universe and God.
I don't think children should be so set up. God exists, so do saints. Christmas is about Jesus Christ - not St. Nicholas. Or the Kings. But both are historical characters who REALLY EXISTED, and who during the winter season REALLY DID WHAT WE RITUALLY represent that they did... analogously to all the other Church feast days - none based on myth, all based on historical events and real people.
If children are uniformly taught by the whole "there is no Santa claus!" trauma that Adults will lie through their teeth - that this fabulous person who brings gifts, who knows what they want and can deliever the goods... is fake and that it's really just the parents themselves... why shouldn't they also conclude that "God" or Jesus Christ is also a myth and that they're just symbols of adult power and influence?
Maybe I'm overreacting. Maybe most kids won't go through these kinds of existential problems...but logically and philosophically these are issues at stake here. We can be smug in our maturity at 30 or 40 or 50...but 5 and 10 year olds in 2003 - bombarded as they are with so much ideology and vice, don't need more hurdles for simple, trusting faith in God!
After all, the bed-rock of faith is trust in the living person who is a "witness" to the resurrection and divinity of Jesus Christ - not in the Bible - but in real living people. If you don't trust your parents...or adults in general you'll believe what the media (no-one in particular) has to say about life: it's for self-centered enjoyment and nothing more.
If you begin life slightly skeptical or cynical (once-bitten), there is a higher chance that you won't go out on the limb again and risk everything by believing in "God" either.
-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), September 25, 2003.
Lighten up, guys! Halloween, however "evil" it's origions may or may not have been (and frankly I don't care), it is currently just a fun little holiday for little kids to dress up as their favorite Pokemon and get candy.
-- Anti-bush (Comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), September 26, 2003.
I dunno what kind of site this this is, but some people on here seem to be fooled as to what haloween really means. I'm catholic myself but will be the first to say, alot of catholics need to shape up and get stronger in the right faith. I say right because over the years alot of junk has snaked it's way into the church since Jesus Christ founded it 2000 years ago.The Celtic New Year,called Samhain, was celebrated on October 31st by the Druids or Celtic Priests. It was a celebration to signify the end of summer. On that night the celtics believed that the boundary between living and dead became invisibe. The spirits of those who had died the previous year were believed to haunt the land to posess the living. The people dressed demons and evil spirits and went around town to scare off the spirits. The name Halloween comes from all hallows eve,which was the night before all saints day. The ROMAN CHURCH took events from Samhain and made it their own.Many of the traditions of modern Halloween are based on ancient Pagan practices of the Druids. Here are some of them. Trick or Treat:Celtics believed that if bowls of food and wine were put outside of their houses it would distract the spirits from going inside. After eating and drinking,the spirits left in peace.The church turned this into a tradition called "souling." Held on november 2nd,civilians would go from door to door of families begging for food. They would recieve pastries called soul cakes on a promise to pay for the families dead loved ones. The more cakes that were passed out,the more prayers that said and the person was "guranteed" to go to heaven. HA forget that!!! Jesus said I AM the way, truth and the light NO man comes to the farther but by me Alone. So be careful, just like it says Satan comes in many forums to decieve and take away souls, the best way to do that is to come of "nice" and "fun" and everything is good. In Mathew he talks about not everyone that sayd Lord Lord will enter into heaven, dont fall into this! Trust in Jesus and attend a good catholic church faithfully to recieve her blessings from Jesus Maida
-- C A maida (rotec9@aol.com), October 31, 2003.
Paragraphs, Madia, paragraphs.I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying Halloween is evil?
-- Anti-bush (Comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), November 01, 2003.
T
-- T (Y@WW.COM), September 11, 2004.
T7
-- T (Y@WW.COM), September 11, 2004.