If you're new to the faith, and come from another faith background, it's east to get the wrong impression of who we are. I joined the faith later in life and coming from a Lutheran background, I had many misconceptions about the Catholic faith. I would not have joined had I not had a close friend, who shared my views, go through the process to join the church (his wife was Catholic - which was the source of our many misguided discussions about the church) and was . . . shall we say . . . energized by what he experienced.

I too, now share his enthusiasm for this church and now would like to share what I found, to make it easier for those on the outside, looking in . . . to feel more welcome.

The stepping off point, for me, when asking the question what do Catholics believe . . . is to turn to the Nicene Creed. It is recited at every Mass as the high point of the liturgy of the word and it is in a nutshell . . . all that we believe.

While some here would have you believe otherwise, the Catholic faith is a simple faith, with simple beginnings. Jesus is the foundation of all that we believe and what Jesus gave us was "humble and true"

His gift to the church came in the form of twelve simple men and the guidence of the Holy Spirit. What we've done with that humble beginning since then has sometimes clouded his simple message for us, but his gift has always remained simply intact in our faith.

If you want to understand our faith, begin with the words of the Nicene creed and build on that foundation.

The Early followers, or the early church were also asking the same questions? Who was Jesus and what did he give us? They knew that in Jesus, something important had taken place . . . but what? Was Jesus really God or was he just a man, with special inspiration from God? Their lives had been touched in a powerful way, but what he did and what he said and the way that he lived among them . . . but what had happened?

The leaders of the early church gathered together in the year 312 in the city of Nicaea, and set about to answer the question. What they gave us, was what we know as the Nicene Creed. A simple statement of faith . . . in a nutshell, it is the foundation of our church. It is what we believe.

So what do Catholics believe . . .

We believe in god, the same way that Jesus described God to us. He turned to God as three seperate entities . . . A Triune God, God in three persons, Three in one. Why is it important that we see God as having three separate entities? At first glance, all I could say is that that’s the way that Jesus taught us. I don’t know . . . it’s mystery . . . That’s the way Jesus gave it to us and so that’s how we honor it.

However, when we look at God as Jesus did, we come to an understand of who God is, and more importantly what God wants in us.

God the Father . . . We believe in one god the father almighty.

Understanding God as Jesus does, helps us to “know God” as a loving creator who is intimately involved with “his creation.” God’s creation didn’t stop on the seventh day as is told in Genesis. Each of us are living examples God’s Creation. All of us with our good traits and our bad traits, with our dreams, our quirks, and our pet peeves are a creation of God. Who we are comes from God. We all strive to be the best we can be, but when we seem to fall short, it’s important to remember that we are all created with our own special gifts, but none of us was created complete. None of us were created perfect. The world tells us that we need to be like Brittany or Tom cruise. God tells us that who we are, is what God made for us. You can demonstrate your love for God and “his creation” by first learning to love yourself, as you are. Learn to love yourself and those around you as special gifts of God’s love for us.

When we speak of God and who God is, it’s important to understand that we speak about “mystery.” We speak as though we understand, but what we speak about is beyond all of us. “As far as the heavens are above the earth are gods ways above our ways and God’s words above our words. When we try to explain god, we can’t explain God. What we are talking about is simply for us, not to be fully comprehended.

God the Son One in Being with the Father – Truly God Born of the virgin Mary and became man – Truly Man For our sake, he was crucified – Gods love will always triumph over evil. When God’s love became “one of us,” evil nailed him to a cross. God’s love triumphed when . . . On the third day, he rose again. Jesus conquered evil, when he was put to death and descended into the depths of hell and returned again to life.

What actually happed of consequence to us when that happened. Seems plausible when taken at face value and not questioned, but what really happened when Jesus died "for our sins" was resurected on the third day? Why did it have to happen? Was the struggle with evil a real struggle that was actually in doubt . . . a victory of monumental proportions . . . or was it a “demonstration” for our benefit so that we might understand in our own simple way, what Jesus says when he speaks of what he has in store for us in the “next life”

He ascended into heaven – Jesus did not die, but ascended or was raised up into heaven . . . to be with us always . . . to be with us always when we gather in his name, to be in our hearts when we pray. He is present to us in his church, through the Gospel and through the sacraments. His presence, his love and forgiveness are “real actions, working through all of us.”

He will come again in Glory to judge the living and the dead. – The way we live this life, has real consequences in the next life. Each of us will be judged and the true meaning of life will only be known in the end time.

His Kingdom will have no end – This life, while it seems to be all there is now, is really just a blink of an eye in God’s terms. His kingdom is the life we should all be living for, for it is all that is “real”

God the Spirit - We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life – The spirit is the love, eternally proceeding from the father and the son. To know the spirit, we need only look inside ourselves, in others and in all of creation for what is good, true, beautiful or honorable. His spirit lives in all of us, there to show the way, available to all of us, so that we too, might "know" god. An Apostolic Church, We believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church.

It is the desire of the spirit, that we all be united, through the church, with God.

The church shares in the holiness of God, it not sinless, but the presence of God, through the Father, Son and Holy Spirit makes it a holy institution.

Catholic – universal, the whole church of Christ.

Apostolic – the church traces it’s teachings and authority, back to Jesus and his apostles, the 12 disciples whom Jesus commissioned to share his word. Jesus told Peter, upon this rock I will build my church. That church has been passed on, one to another, unbroken to this day. The present day Pope and Bishops have been commissioned from that line. We are still the church that Jesus gave us. Bishops, Priests and the layiety.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins We believe, as Jesus told us that we need to be baptized into “new life” with him. In baptism, the power of sin is removed; our old life falls away and we are reborn into a new life in Christ. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.

Amen – Yes, "I Believe" it is so.

Interestinly enough . . . the Lutheran church, recites the same creed when they gather . . . what does that tell us about the two "seperate" institutions? Perhaps we say the same thing in two seperate ways. As for myself, I'm at home in the Catholic church.

-- Leon (vol@weblink2000.net), October 04, 2003

Answers

Response to What do Cathholics Believe?

Jmj
Hello, Leon.

I'm very pleased to welcome you to Catholicism from Lutheranism. Every conversion is a blessed event.

Thank you for reviewing, in your message, many important truths from our creed and catechism. There is only one item that seems a bit blurry, and I'd like to ask you to join with me in clarifying it.

Notice how you used the word "separate" in the final paragraph, to show that there truly is a division between Catholicism and Lutheranism (a body of our "separated" brethren). Keeping in mind that concept of "separateness" and difference in belief and practice, I hope that you would agree that the Persons of the Blessed Trinity are not "separate." I believe that the Church refers to them as "distinct," rather than "separate."

I mention this because, earlier in your message, you spoke of them as "separate." You also referred to them as "separate entities," instead of using only the term that the Church uses, "distinct Persons." You wrote:
"[Jesus] turned to God as three seperate entities . . . A Triune God, God in three persons, Three in one. Why is it important that we see God as having three separate entities?"

Leon, it is good that you referred to "God in three persons, Three in one." But I worry that some may be confused by your additional reference to "entities." First you said that God is "three separate entities," and then you said that God has "three separate entities." I think that the Catholic Church would not say either of those things. As I learned recently, though, the (non-Christian) Mormons, who are not believers in the Trinity, use that term -- "three separate entities" in the "godhead." They consider Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to be three separate divine "beings" -- not three Persons in one God.

I'd like to explain why I object to the use of the term "entities" to refer to the Persons of the Trinity. That word comes from the Latin "ens," which means "being" [from the verb "esse" -- to be]. In the Blessed Trinity, there are not three "beings" (entities), but only one Being -- not a "human being," but one "supreme Being" in three divine Persons. [By saying that God is not a "human being," I am in no way denying the fact that God the Son assumed a human nature.]

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), October 04, 2003.

[Same text as above, but without HTML error:]

Jmj
Hello, Leon.

I'm very pleased to welcome you to Catholicism from Lutheranism. Every conversion is a blessed event.

Thank you for reviewing, in your message, many important truths from our creed and catechism. There is only one item that seems a bit blurry, and I'd like to ask you to join with me in clarifying it.

Notice how you used the word "separate" in the final paragraph, to show that there truly is a division between Catholicism and Lutheranism (a body of our "separated" brethren). Keeping in mind that concept of "separateness" and difference in belief and practice, I hope that you would agree that the Persons of the Blessed Trinity are not "separate." I believe that the Church refers to them as "distinct," rather than "separate."

I mention this because, earlier in your message, you spoke of them as "separate." You also referred to them as "separate entities," instead of using only the term that the Church uses, "distinct Persons." You wrote:
"[Jesus] turned to God as three separate entities . . . A Triune God, God in three persons, Three in one. Why is it important that we see God as having three separate entities?"

Leon, it is good that you referred to "God in three persons, Three in one." But I worry that some may be confused by your additional reference to "entities." First you said that God is "three separate entities," and then you said that God has "three separate entities." I think that the Catholic Church would not say either of those things. As I learned recently, though, the (non-Christian) Mormons, who are not believers in the Trinity, use that term -- "three separate entities" in the "godhead." They consider Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to be three separate divine "beings" -- not three Persons in one God.

I'd like to explain why I object to the use of the term "entities" to refer to the Persons of the Trinity. That word comes from the Latin "ens," which means "being" [from the verb "esse" -- to be]. In the Blessed Trinity, there are not three "beings" (entities), but only one Being -- not a "human being," but one "supreme Being" in three divine Persons. [By saying that God is not a "human being," I am in no way denying the fact that God the Son assumed a human nature.]

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), October 04, 2003.

Point well taken, and I agree with you completely

-- Leon (vol@weblink2000.net), October 06, 2003.

I am confused Leon, what do you mean exactly when you say:

"Interestinly enough . . . the Lutheran church, recites the same creed when they gather . . . what does that tell us about the two "seperate" institutions? Perhaps we say the same thing in two seperate ways."

I, being a Lutheran, understand the Nicene Creed basically the same way as you descirbed it. How do we say the same thing in a seperate way? Clarify Please.

-- (me@myaddress.com), October 07, 2003.

I just have to take off my Catholic hat for this one.

It is my opinion, and only my opinion, that there is no just no real need for the wall that exists between mainstream churches. The spirit is at work in the hearts of all who seek God, whether they be in a Lutheran Church or a Catholic Church or in no church at all. I worship in a Catholic church because that is where God has put me and it is for me, where I am at home. My parents are nourished in the Lutheran Church. The spirit is at work in their lives as well as mine.

Just a personal point of view . . . certainly not a "Catholic" one.

Peace

"As far as the heavens are above the earth are Gods ways above our ways and God's thoughts above our thoughts."

-- Leon (vol@weblink2000.net), October 07, 2003.

Thank you for clarifying. Your last paragraph of your first post was very confusing. You made it had sound like we had different meanings for the same creed which is untrue. It's a declaration of faith. And your absolutely correct when you say that there is no real need for a wall that exists between the mainstream Christian churches. I feel that we all can live in harmony with each other and still maintain the ultimate goal of reaching heaven in the after life. I feel that God works his magic best through me in the Lutheran church and I am perfectly and most happy with that. That too is just my personal point of view. I am glad to see a Catholic say such things about the other mainstream protestant religions. I have talked to some Catholics before and they have made me feel extremely insubordinate to them. I don't know, but maybe you see through the "wall" and see that the Catholic way isn't the only way or the best way for some people.

Thanks and God bless

-- (me@myaddress.com), October 08, 2003.

Hi Leon,

My sincerest welcome and congratulations to you now that you are a part of the Rock, the One True Church of Jesus Christ, the Blessed Virgin Mary and St. Peter ~ the Catholic Church ~ the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

However, please refrain from the habit of taking off your new Catholic hat simply at your convenience. The moment you took off your Catholic hat, Protestant words spewed out of your mouth. I thank God for giving you the Grace to become a Catholic, but please do not encourage a Protestant to sit comfortably where he is ~ on the seat of half-truth. There are too many differences between the Catholic Church and other churches! We Catholics do not live our lives just on "personal points of view" ~ we have to Adhere to ALL teachings of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church! It is abhorrent to indirectly equate the Catholic Church with the Lutheran Church. The Lutheran Church is the church of excommunicated Martin Luther who insisted on his "personal views" over the then 1500 year old sacred teachings of the Catholic Church. Nevertheless, in obedience to the Pope, we Catholics must love our "separated brethren" ~ our Protestant brothers and sisters ~ while strictly maintaining our Catholicity.

Peace be with you.

-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), October 15, 2003.

OK James, I still believe firmly along with the weight of the whole church that it is possible for good people outside the faith to enter heaven.

If you insist on a the "traditional" way of thinking you are not living inside the "real" Cathoic church, but in a church of your own making.

-- Leon (vol@weblink2000.net), October 22, 2003.

Leon,

You obviously still have NOT embraced Fully the TRADITIONAL Teachings of the Magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church for Two Milleniums ~ but that's understandable since you are still making baby Catholic steps, and tripping once in a while, coming from a lifetime of heresy ~ but stick with The TRADITIONS of the Holy Catholic Church, where you are now, and Abandon Fully your heretical past ~ Dig in deep in the Traditional Teachings of the Real Holy Catholic Church. Don't be in the fringe. And refrain from taking off your Catholic hat whenever you want to. Just wear one kind of hat at all times.

The REAL Holy Catholic Church is All about TRADITION, Leon. Catholics love incense, candles, vigils, plenary indulgence and so on ...

As the writer of Ecclesiastes says,

"There is nothing new under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:9)

We Catholics believe that.

You made a wrong inference when you thought that I have condemned everyone outside the Holy Catholic Church as going to Hell.

The Catechism of the Holy Catholic Church says that God can provide Grace to those even outside the Holy Catholic Church ~ but isn't that Too Big Of A Risk to undertake?

Leon, the REAL Holy Catholic Church is all about OBEDIENCE to all the TRADITIONAL teachings of The Magisterium. I have no intention of making another church unlike so many of the False prophets proliferating in the protestant Arena of Biblical Misinterpretations, Martin Luther, being the Prime example ~ thank God you have recently joined the True Traditional Holy Catholic Church!

Peace.

-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), October 22, 2003.

Leon,

Furthermore, if you are referring to me as being part of the "traditionalist schismatics" inside the Catholic church, I have no part with them, for they do not obey The Pope and The Magisterium.

-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), October 22, 2003.

I think that it’s important to answer, clearly and simply, two questions: The first is, "Why don’t we have to believe in Baptism of Desire?" The second is, "Why should we not believe in Baptism of Desire?"

It has never been defined by the Church.

In answer to the first question, "Why don’t we have to believe in Baptism of Desire?" I give two reasons. The first is that the Church has never defined it. No Pope ever defined it, either alone, or in an ecumenical council. It is something that has just developed on it's own, which is not a doctrine by any means.

-- Barney (Barney@oatbran.com), October 27, 2003.

One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours. And surely no one can accomplish this sacrament except a priest who has been rightly ordained according to the keys of the Church which Jesus Christ Himself conceded to the Apostles and to their successors. But the sacrament of baptism (which at the invocation of God and the indivisible Trinity, namely, of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, is solemnized in water) rightly conferred by anyone in the form of the Church is useful unto salvation for little ones and for adults. And if, after the reception of baptism anyone shall have lapsed into sin, through true penance he can always be restored. Moreover, not only virgins and the continent but also married persons pleasing to God through right faith and good work merit to arrive at a blessed eternity.

Pope Innocent III Ex Cathedra

-- Barney (Barney@oatbrn.com), October 27, 2003.

A document from the Second Vatican Council) says that God's grant of salvation includes not only Christians, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus and people of good will. That is, a person can be saved, can attain salvation, but on condition that the person is open to God's action. ..." ...

Robert Ashley, news director at Dallas radio station KHVN-AM, asked Cardinal Arinze: "So you can still get to heaven without accepting Jesus?"

Cardinal Arinze answered: "Expressly, yes (he laughs with the audience)."

Source: 'If God himself gave freedom', article © March 20, 1999, by Brooks Egerton, staff writer of The Dallas Morning News, third edition, page 1G.

This is a very interesting situation, where the Vatican is proclaiming itself to be the one true church of Christ, and that all non-Roman Catholic denominations "suffer from defects" and "are not Churches in the proper sense", and other religions "are in a gravely deficient situation", while at the same time they are denying that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary to salvation, that non-Christians can be saved. Truly Amazing! How does that fit in with the one above? Amazing ,if you believe that it can.

-- Barney (Barney@oatbrn.com), October 28, 2003.

What seems contradictory, is really not contradictory. It only appears to be that way.

-- Goldie (Pacer@storage.com), October 28, 2003.

All due respect Goldie, but you must be kidding!

-- Sam (Shamus@lifetime.com), October 28, 2003.

I was just reading the posting by Leon and I really felt it made sense to me. I grew up in a Baptist church and I have never felt "at home" there. I went to Belize for a summer and attended mass a few times and it was there that I felt closer to God. It was like for the first time my eyes were truly opened. I felt peace and joy. I am interested in learning more about the Catholic beliefs and practices. I feel that my personal creed fits perfectly with with the Nicene Creed. I have never wanted to declare myself as a Denomination because I have never felt God leading me in any certain direction until now. If there are any books or reading that someone could recommend to me I would love to look into this a little more. I have been trying to deny my spirit for a long time because I grew up in a Baptist church where Catholics were not looked favourably upon. I know that is wrong, but that is how it was. I was beginning to feel that I did not fit with any Church and that was sad for me because I love to attend church, but I want to know what the beliefs are. I feel a little overwhelmed by all of the Saints and Creeds ... It all seems very traditional, but I would like to learn more. Please let me know if anyone can point me in the right direction. Also, I am wondering what Catholics believe about Hell and Heaven. Ie. Who goes to Heaven, and who goes to Hell? Baptists believe that you need to repent for your sins and ask God to forgive you as well as aknowledge that He is the Lord above all. I feel like growing up I was taught that we are going to Hell for just about everything we do. It was what I call "hell and damnation" preaching. PLEASE! Tell me more. Thank you, and God Bless. --Nic

-- Nichole Johanna (nhayden04@aol.com), October 28, 2003.

Hi, Nichole Johanna,

Peace be with you!

I thank God for the wonderful work He is doing in your life. The 2000 year old Most Holy Catholic Church has the Fullness of Truth and the Fullness of the Means of Salvation.

I recommend two very easy steps for you to make :

1. Contact your local Catholic parish/diocese and inquire about the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults (RCIA) classes. These classes will give you an introductory teaching about the Catholic Church and will prepare you for the necessary Sacraments that you need to become fully Catholic.

2. Get a hold of the book ~ Catechism of the Catholic Church. This book will answer all your doctrinal and theological questions about the Catholic Church. The entire book is also provided online by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

May God keep you and Bless you always.

-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), October 28, 2003.

nic, dont really have time right now, but i'll get back to you tomorrow after my midterm.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), October 28, 2003.

paul h, did you have something to add for Nichole?

Sam, Goldie is not only not "kidding." He/she is right.

-- (top@top.top), November 01, 2003.

Nichole, it's beautiful to read about your attraction to the Catholic Church. Take things nice and easy, and "Be not afraid." You are coming to the end of a long journey, having been led to this point by the Holy Spirit.

I think that you will be much helped by visiting the site of The Coming Home Network, which exists to help folks just like you. On the linked page at their site, you'll find links to a bunch of conversion stories. I believe that some of the folks were Baptists, even at least one Baptist minister.

Come back often to visit here at the Catholic forum, please.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 01, 2003.