http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/health/3176982.stm

BBC NEWS October 9, 2003

Vatican in HIV condom row

The Catholic Church has been accused of telling people in countries with high rates of HIV that condoms do not protect against the deadly virus.

The claims are made in a Panorama programme called Sex and the Holy City to be screened on BBC One on Sunday.

It says cardinals, bishops, priests and nuns in four continents are saying HIV can pass through tiny holes in condoms.

The World Health Organization has condemned the comments and warned the Vatican it is putting lives at risk.

The claims come just a day after a report revealed that a young person is now infected with HIV every 14 seconds.

The statements are totally incorrect. Latex condoms are impermeable. They do prevent HIV transmission. Catherine Hankins, chief scientific advisor to UNAids, According to the United Nations Population Fund, around 6,000 people between the ages of 15 and 24 catch the virus every day.

Half of all new infections are now in people under the age of 25 and most of these are young women living in the developing world.

Condom advice

Health experts around the world urge people to use condoms to protect themselves from HIV and a host of sexually transmitted infections.

However, the Catholic Church has consistently refused to back such calls. The Vatican is opposed to contraception and has advocated that people change their behaviour instead.

But according to Panorama, the Church is now telling people that condoms do not work.

In an interview, one of the Vatican's most senior cardinals Alfonso Lopez Trujillo suggested HIV could even pass through condoms.

"The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom," he says.

Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids Gordon Wambi, Aids activist The cardinal, who is president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family, suggests that governments should urge people not to use condoms.

"These margins of uncertainty...should represent an obligation on the part of the health ministries and all these campaigns to act in the same way as they do with regard to cigarettes, which they state to be a danger."

The programme includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choir master not to use condoms with his wife because "the virus can pass through".

The Archbishop of Nairobi Raphael Ndingi Nzeki told Panaroma that condoms were helping to spread the virus.

"Aids...has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms," he said.

In Kenya, one in five people are HIV positive.

Gordon Wambi, director of an Aids testing programme in Lwak, near Lake Victoria, told the programme that he could not distribute condoms because of opposition from the Catholic Church.

"Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids," he said.

According to Panaroma, the claims about condoms are repeated by Catholics as far apart as Asia and Latin America.

Claims condemned

Catherine Hankins, chief scientific advisor to UNAids, condemned the Church's comments.

"It is very unfortunate to have this type of misinformation being broadcast," she told BBC News Online.

"It is a concern. From a technical point of view, the statements are totally incorrect.

"Latex condoms are impermeable. They do prevent HIV transmission."

The WHO also attacked the Catholic Church's comments.

"Statements like this are quite dangerous, " a spokeswoman told BBC News Online.

"We are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people and currently affects around 42 million.

"There is so much evidence to show that condoms don't let sexually transmitted infections like HIV through.

"Anyone who says otherwise is just wrong."

The aid agency Christian Aid also attacked the Vatican's attitude.

"Condoms are a straightforward and effective way of preventing HIV transmission and to suggest otherwise is dangerous," said Dr Rachel Baggaley, head of its HIV unit.

-- DJ (damien@molaki.com), October 10, 2003

Answers

Not the hierarchy, but the "scientific community" is the liar! Look at the CDC (Centers for Disease Control) data on this issue: across the board, it is shown that PROMISCUITY is the root cause of the spread of Sexually transmitted diseases - many of which are spread by oral sex and even sweat such as Herpes.

So the so-called "scientific community" which promotes the use of Condoms as a "cure-all" are actually encouraging a false sense of security among people whose life style is the root problem.

Besides, in the CDC labs and in most hospitals when researchers examin petri dishes full of HIV or other STDs, they typically enter specialized chambers wearing full body suits - but then proclaim to the public that a small latex sheath is enough to protect others from cotagion????

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), October 10, 2003.

Not to mention that the many types of condoms which have been tested by independent research facilities have been shown to have physical failure rates anywhere from 6% to nearly 40%. Early in the 1980's the Alan Guttmacher Institute, the research and development branch of Planned Parenthood International, demonstrated that ready availability of condoms to adolescents produced a marked increase in the incidence of sexually transmitted disease and pregnancy. This was due to three primary factors - a false sense of security produced by use of condoms; the inconsistency in proper use of them among adolescents; and the physical failure rate of the condoms themselves. What it all boiled down to is that ready availability of condoms invariably increased sexual activity; and increased sexual activity, with or without condoms, invariably results in increased rates of disease and pregnancy, a fact which the Church wisely proclaims. Oh by the way - the Guttmacher Institute kept these findings sectret, and the following year Planned Parenthood initiated its program of providing free condoms to schools as a "public service".

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), October 10, 2003.

Promiscuity and IV drug abuse spreads AIDS, not condoms or their lack. Until the root cause is removed, the band-aids won't stop it.

"These margins of uncertainty...should represent an obligation on the part of the health ministries and all these campaigns to act in the same way as they do with regard to cigarettes, which they state to be a danger."

I agree with this. Have you seen the hype about second hand smoke? The same logic should be used with condoms.

"Latex condoms are impermeable. They do prevent HIV transmission."

A better way of putting this would be a perfect latex condom perfectly used probably would prevent HIV trasmission, assuming no other fluid exchanges occured during intercourse. The trouble can be seen with pregnancy statistics: Condoms are not NEARLY as effective at preventing pregnancy as the pill, mainly because of "bad" practices, defective condoms, or lack of 100% usage. If you can get pregnant using a condom for birth control, you can get AIDS using a condom for HIV control. Condoms are NOT some panacea for AIDS!

"Condoms are a straightforward and effective way of preventing HIV transmission and to suggest otherwise is dangerous," said Dr Rachel Baggaley, head of its HIV unit.

To say that condoms are a GUARANTEE of AIDS prevention is not only dangerous, but a lie. (but I do agree that other things being equal, they would decrease the risk, OTOH, if by decreasing your one-time risk you continue your unsafe practices, your risk may actually go up). What one CAN say, is those people who don't do drugs, and are in monogamous relationships (as well as their sexual partners living up to the same) have almost NO chance of contracting AIDS whether they use condoms or not!

The REAL cure for AIDS is monogomy or abstinence.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), October 10, 2003.

When it is understood that government-funded NGOs' doctors are out neutering developing-world women as fast as they can find them, it becomes obvious that their real interest is stopping the "human life" virus.

Or maybe someone can tell me how tying a woman's tubes lowers her risk for HIV.

-- (---@---.---), October 10, 2003.

As someone who has a legitimate axe to grind against the Catholic hierarchy it never-the-less angers me when they are painted with the broad brush of spurious accusations of lying about condoms and their efficacy:

Studies of Condom Efficacy-Laboratory Studies and Human Studies

Under laboratory conditions, viruses occasionally have been shown to pass through natural membrane ("skin" or lambskin) condoms, which contain natural pores and are therefore not recommended for disease prevention. On the other hand, laboratory studies have consistently demonstrated that latex condoms provide a highly effective mechanical barrier to HIV. Although the ability of latex to serve as an effective mechanical barrier to HIV and sperm in the laboratory is encouraging, clinical studies typically show failure rates ranging from 2 to 15 percent when condoms are the only method used to prevent pregnancy. Why is there such a large range in the observed effectiveness in reports of actual use compared with the consistent laboratory findings? The answer to this question has important implications for HIV prevention and lies in an understanding of the key role that proper use plays in condom efficacy. A condom is a highly effective mechanical barrier when it is used consistently and correctly. However, studies have shown that only 30 to 60 percent of men who claim to use condoms for contraception actually used them for every act of intercourse. Further, even people who use condoms consistently may not use them correctly. Incorrect use contributes to the possibility that the condom could leak from the base or break.

A 2-15% failure rate IN REAL LIFE CONDITIONS preventing sperm passage, much smaller than viruses, is a real gamble when the virus has no cure?

Liars, the hierarchy, about this topic?

I DO NOT THINK SO!!!!!

Karl

-- Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), October 10, 2003.

Condoms don't prevent HIV. Around 100,000 HIV viruses can fit on a period.

This is from the CDC website.

"The surest way to avoid transmission of sexually transmitted diseases is to abstain from sexual intercourse, or to be in a long- term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and you know is uninfected.

"For persons whose sexual behaviors place them at risk for STDs, correct and consistent use of the male latex condom can reduce the risk of STD transmission. However, no protective method is 100 percent effective, and condom use cannot guarantee absolute protection against any STD. Furthermore, condoms lubricated with spermicides are no more effective than other lubricated condoms in protecting against the transmission of HIV and other STDs. In order to achieve the protective effect of condoms, they must be used correctly and consistently. Incorrect use can lead to condom slippage or breakage, thus diminishing their protective effect. Inconsistent use, e.g., failure to use condoms with every act of intercourse, can lead to STD transmission because transmission can occur with a single act of intercourse.

"While condom use has been associated with a lower risk of cervical cancer, the use of condoms should not be a substitute for routine screening with Pap smears to detect and prevent cervical cancer."

Notice they say effective but not totally preventative. They also say the best way to prevent is to NOT HAVE SEX

-- Scott (papasquat10@hotmail.com), October 10, 2003.

"It is a concern. From a technical point of view, the statements are totally incorrect."

-yes, and that is where the arguments fall apart relatively speaking...

From a technical point of view, people should not be suffering and dying BUT they are... And it will continue UNTIL Truth is embraced... Our Church is correct -one generation of abstinence/chastity/monogamy would eradicate this scourge and end the suffering...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), October 10, 2003.

I have little to add. It has been knopwn for years that Condomns are not 100% effective in the prevention of pregnancy ( their primary design function) nor in disease controle. The idea that Condomns will prevent you form beign ill is not wholey correct, instead it reduces your risk.

However, to show you an allegouy, its like an umberella. In a downpour of rain, the Umberella will prevent you form gettign wet, however, it is not 100% effective, the wind can blow the rain onto you form odd angles, as well as the sway fo the umberella as you walk. The only sure meathod of not gettign wet is to stay indoors.

Condoms are a false concept of protection, we think if we wear them, no unwanted pregnancy occures, and no disease is transfered, thus we feel free to excersise our cultures demand for sexual contact, rather than heed the wise words of any church and mot major world religions that sexual promiscuity is to be avoided.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM.), October 10, 2003.

DJ,

The BBC is an unreliable source. I suggest you disregard it. This line here you quote...

Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids," he said

...sounds ridiculous and is unsubstantiated. Who was the priest and what was the context of the conversation and when did the conversation take place? Why would anybody begin to believe that such a silly statement might be true? Aren't the packages tamper- proof? So why does the BBC even bring that up?

The BBC has an anti-Catholic agenda so the source is highly biased.

BBC Hostile to the Church, Says Archbishop

LONDON, SEPT. 29, 2003 (Zenit.org).- A Catholic archbishop assailed BBC, accusing it of a "hostile" attitude to the Church and claiming its reporters had harassed a sick priest, the Guardian newspaper reported.

Archbishop confronts BBC's anti-Church bias By Simon Caldwell

The Catholic Church has launched an unprecedented attack on the BBC over plans to broadcast two "offensive" programmes which coincide with the Pope's silver jubilee and the beatification of Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

Archbishop Vincent Nichols of Birmingham accused the BBC of aggression and bias against the Catholic Church.He said that the "malice" and the "lack of judgement or managerial responsibility" demonstrated by the public service broadcaster in its treatment of the Church had led him to question the justification of the licence fee.

He criticised the BBC in particular for its plans to broadcast a Panorama documentary called "Sex and the Holy City" on October 19, the day of Mother Teresa's beatification, and for its plans to screen a Kenyon Confronts documentary on child abuse in the Catholic Church on October 16, the day when Pope John Paul II celebrates the 25th anniversary of his election.

The archbishop also attacked the BBC for its forthcoming satirical cartoon Popetown and for the unfair treatment of Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor by the BBC's Radio Four Today programme during a campaign for his resignation last year, led by a team of BBC Newsnight reporters.

-- Mike H. (beginasyouare@hotmail.com), October 11, 2003.

Overall, the press is unkinf to the whole of Christaedome these days, form claims of obsolecence ( Becuse supposedly our society has moved on.) to claims that Christins are superstitious fools that mutter Bible verses and can't think for themselves, there is a massive attempt to discredit the faith in favour of the new philosophies, phlosophies which, Simpley put, do not work.Like the idea that Sex outside of marriage is OK, and shoudl even be encouraged, after all you shoudl have soem expeirnce before you wed, right? Besides COndomns keep all the bad diseases and spectre fo an unwanted prehnancy away...

In general, Christaisn are protrayed on Television and in movies as either dim witted comic releif, or narrow minded bigots that hold up progress, or in some cases, the villains.

So that the modern heroe can look cool espousing th emodern philosophies. Also note, christainm homes are, on television, unhappy, ns fthe hero, who disregards traditional vlaues, and instead seeks modern ways, is always happy and well adjusted.

Tis is, of course, the reverse of the truth by and large.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), October 11, 2003.