I was just wondering if thinking of killing yourself of praying to die was considered a sin.

-- Jessie Jung (Jessiesaxflute1@aol.com), November 02, 2003

Answers

Response to Is thinking of suicide a song

Jessie,

Yes -I would say it is a sin... It is sin against hope -sin of despair...

--per the catechism:

2325 Suicide is seriously contrary to justice, hope, and charity. It is forbidden by the fifth commandment.

--again, per the catechism:

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

---finally, per the catechism:

2091 The first commandment is also concerned with sins against hope, namely, despair and presumption:

By despair, man ceases to hope for his personal salvation from God, for help in attaining it or for the forgiveness of his sins. Despair is contrary to God's goodness, to his justice - for the Lord is faithful to his promises - and to his mercy.

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), November 02, 2003.

Response to Is thinking of suicide a song

Jessie,

Is this just a question you're curious about? Or are you struggling with suicidal thoughts? If so, is there some way we can help? We're listening, talk to us.

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), November 03, 2003.

Response to Is thinking of suicide a song

Jessie,

If you are thinking seriously about suicide, go to a hospital emergency room, or other mental health facility and tell them about it. Do not take alcohol or drugs which may make things seem worse to you.

Do this now. Life isn't bad, but sometimes in depression people only see the bad things, and things seem much worse than they are. People can help you!

On the other hand, if this is just an assignment for school or whatnot, the quotes from the Catechism will help.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), November 03, 2003.

This is rather like the question "is thinking about sex a sin". The fact that a thought - about sex or suicide or anything else - enters your mind is not a sin. We have no control over the thoughts which invade our consciousness. However, to allow ourselves to dwell on such thoughts until they become actual temptations to commit immoral acts is sinful in and of itself, regardless of whether we actually commit the acts we have been contemplating. We are morally responsible for dealing with such thoughts in a way that will minimize their potential for leading us into sin. Where thoughts of suicide are concerned, that may necessitate professional help, as mentioned above.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 03, 2003.

Hi guys, and thank you so much for your thoughts on my question. To answer your question on why I was asking, no I am not thinking of suicide, although there was a time several years ago, when I did think of it. There was just a lot of things going on in my house,and I felt extremely guilty and blamed myself for a lot of them. Anyway, I am healing from all of that, and a couple of weeks ago, during one of my religon classes the question of suicide and wether or not it was a sin came up, and it brought a lot of things back. I realized that to completly get over the whole thing, I needed to talk about it, because I never done that. So my teacher kinda picked up on some of the questions I asked, and eventually got me to talk about it a little bit. And eventually I sat down with my music teacher, who I am close with, and talked about the whole thing. I really feel a lot better, but I still just need to know if thinking about was a sin. Anyway sorry to rattle on, and thanks agian for all your thoughts on the subject.

-- Jessie J (Jessiesaxflute1@aol.com), November 03, 2003.

Jessie,

Thanks for sharing with us. I'm very sorry to hear that you had events in your life that led you to think about suicide, even if only for a moment. It truly breaks my heart whenever I hear about someone (especially a young person) who lives in a situation that is so stressed that suicide actually becomes something to consider.

It sounds like your conscience (one of the ways God speaks to us) wouldn't let you take those thoughts very far - for that we're all relieved.

It's good that you have someone who you can open up to. If you have a priest that you trust, perhaps you could also discuss this with him and ask him to pray for you. I say this not because you necessarily extended your thoughts over into sin (though confessing these to your priest and asking for absolution and prayer would be good just in case), but because your spirit was obviously wounded during this time and asking God to heal your internal wounds is important and the priest should be able to assist you with that.

Take care and God bless.

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), November 04, 2003.

There are at least two (maybe more) ways of seeing suicidal impulses. It would vary from person to person, of course.

It might be real despair or depression caused by events, or deep sorrow of some kind.

But with it all, it may be a deadly temptation of the devil; playing on the sensitivity of faithless men and women.

You can learn something by studying the gospels, and Judas Iscariot. John's gospel is very instructive. --Sin brought Judas into easy range of the evil one, who ended up completely destroying him. It was his love of money. The devil saw how to bring Judas down. First he was tempted to steal. Afterwards, to doubt in the Messias, who didn't seem to have the power or intentions of becoming a king. Judas had been counting on that; shucks!

The devil played Judas like a guitar. But, all the time, Judas could have repented and found forgiveness. He wouldn't do it, and at last it was out of Jesus Christ's hands. Judas went all the way for the devil. Suicide later on was just what he deserved. All sin leads to death. That's why every temptation leads to the suicidal urge, --self-inflicted death. Temptations are the only possible power the devil has in this world; and he will USE them!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), November 05, 2003.

so, if suicide is a sin, aren't we forgiven our sins? and is god not seeing the agony and depression one goes through before suicide? hardly someone commits suicide because of the temptation? and how can the penalty for this sin be death, that's funny if I just killed myself.

-- phil (no@mail.com), November 15, 2003.

Suicide is a sin one would not reasonably repent of, being dead. OK, God might be merciful, for diverse reasons. But despair itself is sin. It plays into the devil's hands. He drives souls into despair.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), November 15, 2003.

The death which scripture describes as the penalty for sin is spiritual death, not biological death. While it is unlikely that many who commit suicide have the opportunity, or take the opportunity, for sincere repentance, though it is not impossible. While Judas was dangling from the rope, before he died, he might have received and cooperated with the grace of repentance. Who knows? But probably most suicide victims do not repent. Whether they are therefore lost forever is unknown, but there is good reason for hope. The Church teaches that three requirements are necessary for mortal sin, the kind of sin which scripture calls "sin leading unto death". (1) The act itself must constitute objectively grave matter. Suicide certainly qualifies on that point. (2) The person who commits the act must be aware of the grave nature of the act. This requirement also entails conscious awareness of the grave nature at the time the act is committed. If a person commits an objectively grave act while sleepwalking, or under the influence of a strong chemical imbalance, he may not be culpable. The severe mental anguish and/or depression which most often leads to suicide may therefore be a mitigating circumstance affecting personal culpability. And (3), the person committing the act must give full, uncoerced, rational consent. It is certainly questionable whether a person contemplating the most irrational act of all - self destruction - is in a state of mind which allows such full, rational consent. In the end though, we must simply commit such persons to the mercy of God.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 16, 2003.

Those who create the circumstances to drive a person to suicide, if such is the circumstance, I think should bear the culpability rather than the one who commits suicide to escape a hell they think is unremitting. Not that I think there should be no culpability for the one who commits suicide. I just think it would be unjust to deny one who commits suicide the opportunity for heaven. I do not accept that God would necessarily deny someone driven enough to despair of life.

Karl

-- Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), November 16, 2003.

Jmj

Paul M, you wrote: "While Judas was dangling from the rope, before he died, he might have received and cooperated with the grace of repentance. Who knows?"

You are right. God has not clearly revealed that Judas was damned. However, of all people whose souls may ever have been lost, there are more hints about Judas than anyone else.

First, there are two ominous phrases used by Jesus himself:
(1) "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?" He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot ...
(2) "... woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born."
[I have not been able to perceive how Jesus could have said either of these about a man who was destined to be saved.]

Secondly, there are the Upper-Room words of St. Peter about Judas (when the time came to choose a successor). The first pope, in Acts 1, says, "For it is written in the book of Psalms, `Let his habitation become desolate, and let there be no one to live in it.'"
Here he is quoting from Psalm 69:25-28, and notice how the context ends:
"May their camp be a desolation, let no one dwell in their tents. For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten, and him whom thou hast wounded, they afflict still more. Add to them punishment upon punishment; may they have no acquittal from thee. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 16, 2003.

Good points, John. I wasn't suggesting that Judas's salvation was probable, at least not from a human perspective; but only that we do not know of the eternal damnation of any human being with absolute certainty - a point on which we apparently agree.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 16, 2003.