I'm currently a 19 yr. old protestant. I have been studying Christian and church history (I want to become a minister) and realized that the protestant beliefs are just not as complete as the catholic ones. I don't want to spend my life teaching to others unsound and incomplete doctrine. I'm planning on being converted over VERY soon. I understand the reasons behind chasticy among the priesthood, but what about lay ministers? Does the Catholic Church have lay ministers and may they marry? How does one become a lay minister. Also, I'm currently the chaplain for my civil war re-enacting group in PA. Believe it or not, there are thousands of re-enactors at some of our events and we attend events almost every weekend. There's never church, so I have it. As a catholic, may I still preach to others in a non-formal state? Not offering communion or pardoning of sins, just preaching God's word and singing some hymns. Please help! Thanks!!!

-- Shawn Gisewhite (www.sharvin@acsworld.com), November 18, 2003

Answers

There are many opportunities for lay men and lay women to formally minister within the Catholic Church. Any lay person may marry, assuming no impediments exist, such as a previous marriage. The Catholic Church also has ordained clergy who are married - Eastern Rite priests, as well as deacons in both the Eastern and Latin Rites of the Church. In all of these cases, married men may be ordained; however a priest or deacon may not marry after ordination. The opportunity for informally sharing the Word of God and the teaching of His Church is always present, and should be the mission of every Catholic, in whatever way one is able.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 18, 2003.

Jmj

Hello, Shawn.
It's beautiful to read that you are on the verge of converting. Please don't let anything stand in your way of coming to the fullness of the truth.

The Catholic Church does not object to your taking part in Civil War re-enactments. However, when you become Catholic, you will have an obligation to attend weekend Mass (Saturday evening after 4:00 p.m. or any time of day on Sunday, even in the evening). This is an obligation that binds under mortal sin, unless one has a serious excuse -- such as illness, a need to care for a family member, auto breakdown, etc.. Attending a sporting event, a battle re-enactment, and other such things would not qualify as serious excuses for you to miss weekend Mass.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 19, 2003.

As a point of clarification, no bearing here, but the Catholic sisters are members of the layiety and they of course, can not be married.

-- Leon (vol@weblink2000.net), November 24, 2003.

Catholic sisters and brothers are not laity. They are professed religious. The membership of the Church is made up of laity, professed religious, and ordained clergy.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 24, 2003.

Jmj
Hi, Leon and Paul M.

I have to smile while saying that, ironically, you are both mistaken!

It is neither right to say that all men and women religious are part of the laity nor right to say that they are a third group separate from the laity and clergy.

At different times, I actually used to believe as each of you have been believing. But then I learned the truth, from Canon 207. It tells us that "Christ's faithful" consist of just two groups -- the ordained (clergy) and the non-ordained (laity). And it then tells us that some of the faithful -- the consecrated, vowed religious -- come from each of these two groups (clergy and laity), but they are in a "state" that "does not belong to the hierarchical structure of the Church." In other words, there are religious clergy (e.g., Dominican priests) and religious laity (e.g., Dominican nuns). Here is the canon:

Canon 207
§1 By divine institution, among Christ's faithful there are in the Church sacred ministers, who in law are also called clerics -­ the others are called lay people.
§2 Drawn from both groups are those of Christ's faithful who, professing the evangelical counsels through vows or other sacred bonds recognized and approved by the Church, are consecrated to God in their own special way and promote the salvific mission of the Church. Their state, although it does not belong to the hierarchical structure of the Church, does pertain to its life and holiness.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 24, 2003.

I guess that's why I keep coming back here. Always something new to learn. Thanks John and Paul

-- Leon (vol@weblink2000.net), November 26, 2003.

Their state, although it does not belong to the hierarchical structure of the Church, does pertain to its life and holiness.

Is their sate distinct from other aspects of their vocation in general. Since an ordained minister, regardless of their state, is part of the hierarchy, it seems confusing if the above quote means that a religious priest is in no way part of the hierarchy. Some religious are even bishops like Sts. Bonaventure and Liguori. Maybe some popes were even members of religious orders?(can someone tell me the answer to that one?)

Also some diocesan priests like St. John Vianney were also religious, he was a Third Order Franciscan. He even joined another Third Order with a special Marian devotion, however this was before there were restrictions against joining two orders at once. A Third Order member is considered a religious in every sense of the word. They have all the blessings that First Order members get.

-- Mike H. (beginasyouare@hotmail.com), November 26, 2003.

It can get confusing, Mike H.

You wrote: "Since an ordained minister, regardless of their state, is part of the hierarchy, it seems confusing if the above quote means that a religious priest is in no way part of the hierarchy."

The confusion here is in the separate meanings of "the hierarchy" and "hierarchical structure." The first (which literally means, "rule by priests") refers to the ordained clergy only. The second, however, refers to the arrangement, in two main divisions (and further subdivisions), of the whole Catholic Church.

You asked: "Maybe some popes were even members of religious orders? (can someone tell me the answer to that one?)"

Yes, that is true of at least one: St. Pope Pius V was a 16th-century Dominican priest. His decision to continue wearing the white Dominican habit is the reason that popes still wear white in our time (something they did not do before Pius V).

Mike, you wrote: "... some diocesan priests like St. John Vianney were also religious, he was a Third Order Franciscan."

A priest cannot be both diocesan (aka, secular) and religious simultaneously. (More in a moment.)

You then stated: "A Third Order member is considered a religious in every sense of the word."

I believe that your terminology is a bit off, and this is causing you some confusion. The Franciscans have a "First Order" (of priests), a "Second Order" (of nuns) and a "Third Order" that is subdivided into two very separate sections:
1. Third Order Regular (T.O.R.) -- priests and nuns, who are "consecrated religious" bound by vows.
2. Third Order Secular, now called Secular Franciscan Order (S.F.O.) -- laity who are not "religious" bound by vows.

Lay "Tertiaries" ("third order" members) -- Franciscan, Dominican, Carmelite, etc. -- are not vowed religious, even though they usually do have certain privileges associated with religious (e.g., being buried in a habit).

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 26, 2003.

Hey thanks John, that answered a lot of questions. Neat story about the pope's clothing today too. Never knew that. Makes ya want to be Dominican.

-- Mike H. (beginasyouare@hotmail.com), November 26, 2003.

Jmj

Mike H, after I posted last time, I remembered that there had been other "religious" popes besides St. Pius V, so I did a little research and came up with the following:

There have been four Franciscan popes: Nicholas IV (1288-1292), Sixtus IV (1471-1484), Sixtus V (1585-1590), Clement XIV (1769-1774).
There have been several popes from the family of Benedictine orders and congregations (one source says 24!) -- the first being St. Gregory I (Gregory the Great) (1590-1604). To see some of the other names, do a "find" on "OSB" at this page.
There have been four Dominican popes: Bl. Innocent V (1276), St. Pius V (1566-1572), Bl. Innocent XI (1676-1689), and Benedict XIII (1724-1730). The next pope may be a Dominican -- Cardinal Christoph Schönborn, the archbishop of Vienna (general editor of the Catechism).
There may have been other popes from religious orders or congregations, but there has never been a Jesuit pope!

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 27, 2003.