If Mary was holy, then where did Jesus get his humanity from? Doesn't it say in the Anthanasian Creed:

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe faithfully the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man of the substance of His mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood;

It was important that Christ be human so that he could tempted in every way just as man is yet overcome sin. So how then can he be both God and man if his mother was holy like God?

-- (mary_kissmiss@hotmail.com), November 25, 2003

Answers

Being holy is not the opposite of being human. Being holy is the calling of every person. We become holy as we draw closer to God. that doesn't make us God's equal. The Bible is full of references to holy people. For example ...

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the HOLY angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Matthew 25:31)

"For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and HOLY, and observed him; (Mark 8:38)

"As he spake by the mouth of his HOLY prophets, which have been since the world began" (Luke 1:70)

"As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called HOLY to the Lord" (Luke 2:23)

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, HOLY, acceptable unto God" (Romans 12:1)

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they HOLY" (1 Corinthians 7:14)

"The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be HOLY both in body and in spirit" (1 Corinthians 7:34)

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be HOLY and without blame before him in love" (Ephesians 1:4)

"Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his HOLY apostles and prophets by the Spirit" (Ephesians 3:5)

"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, HOLY and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering" (Colossians 3:12)

"I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the HOLY brethren" (1 Thessalonians 5:27)

"a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, HOLY, temperate" (Titus 1:8)

"Wherefore, HOLY brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (Hebrews 3:1)

"Because it is written, Be ye HOLY; for I am HOLY" (1 Peter 1:16)

"For after this manner in the old time the HOLY women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands" (1 Peter 3:5)

Were these women equal to God? Were the prophets equal to God? The Apostles? Are we equal to God? Or our children? Was John the Baptist equal to God? The Bible says that all of these people, and many others, were HOLY. So why would you have a problem with the fact that the woman chosen by Almighty God from all eternity to be His own mother was and is likewise HOLY?

Incidentally, the Bible also says that many other things are HOLY - places, laws, commandments, temples, the Church, hands, callings, scriptures, priesthood, nation, mountain, conversation, kisses, etc., etc. And none of these things are equal to God.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 25, 2003.

Mary is holy and not as we are!: "A defense of the Immaculate Conception"

The Dogma of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary is only logical from a Christian perspective, in fact, it is an essential of Christian Faith. The Bible clearly states that nothing defiled can be near God because of His Perfection and His Holiness. At the Annunciation, Christ, Who is truly God, entered the womb of the Blessed Virgin. Christ had not yet taken on His Humanity since He recieved it from the Vrigin Mary, so He was purely Divine at the moment of the Incarnation. Now, if God cannot be near anything that is defiled, or sinful, then He would not be able to enter the womb of the Blessed Virgin, unless she was given a privlege, the privlege of her Immaculate Conception. So, to deny the Blessed Virgin of her Immaculate Conception is to deny the very Divinity of Christ Himself! †AMDG

-- Jeff (jmajoris@optonline.net), November 25, 2003.

In Hebrew, the word Holy means "to be set apart" from that all that is common, ordinary, unclean, etc. and "set apart" for God.

For no good tree bears bad fruit nor does a bad tree bear good fruit; for each tree is known by it's own fruit (Lk.6:43-44). If this logic holds good, then, I and you will reflect how good our own mothers are, and Jesus will reflect how good Mary is.

Holy Spirit prompted Elizabeth to say, "Blessed are YOU ...Blessed is the FRUIT OF YOUR WOMB (See how both the tree and fruit share the same blessedness)...why is it granted that the MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me." Again, Elizabeth even though quite righteous, felt unworthy in her presence and spoke thus prompted by the Holy Spirit is very significant (Lk.1:42-43).

-- leslie john (leslie_jn@yahoo.com), November 25, 2003.

We are certain of this: Mary is holy beyond all holiness possible in a created being, angelic or human. This is revealed to us; she was conceived without sin, and at conception existed innocent as Eve before the Fall. It's clear because nothing less holy would suffice to be the Mother of God the Eternal Son. All Creation is worth nothing compared to her, since she is the tabernacle God chose for Himself in this world; an immaculate womb for the span of nine months. Her virginal body -- exempt from all human stain or unworthiness.

We know this was not some ''position'' given Mary for her self-importance or vain glory.

It was (and is now) just the proper importance given to Jesus Christ who is infinitely holy. No one can say that any fault or weakness would be allowed to co-exist in Christ's holy embryonic presence. Certainly never His mother's womb! It would have been sacrilege and more for man's sinful nature to bond somehow with God in the person of His chosen vessel the Virgin Mother. God would have lowered Himself to the level of clay had Mary not been Immaculate and HOLY; more holy than any archangel in the heavens! --His own mother! Only fools will dispute this truth.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), November 25, 2003.

An interesting thread, one that I've struggled with at times myself.

I don't think your arguements hold water . . . that Mary "Has to be holy" in order to bear Jesus in her womb. In fact it would bear out just the opposite. She "has to be" the source of his humanity.

It's easier if you just accept Mary as Holy (which means "with God" or "set apart for God") and not get caught up in the proofs. It's not something that you will ever prove. It's something to be believed or "accepted" with faith.

I look to Mary as the "Mother of our church" It was she who put Jesus on the spot at the wedding of Cana. It was she who pushed Jesus into his public ministry when he was pleading with her that it was not yet time.

It only stands to reason that she is still doing the same thing on our behalf at Jesus' side. I look at my own family and those around me and I see the same situation. It's my wife who makes things happen in my family. I might be the "head" of my house, but it's my wife who keeps me reminded of my "place."

It is also my wife who remembers the birthdays and cares for our neighbors and friends in ways that I can only try to. I just don't have the knack for such things as she does. It is only natural that we look to Mary to remember us . . . the church community . . . in the same way. In that respect, mary is a wonderful comfort in my celebration of my faith.

My own mother passed away two years ago. I firmly believe that she is still at work on our family's behalf. I am still in relationship with her in prayer and it's only natural that she still be with us on that level. The "Communion of Saints" including Mary the mother of Jesus and my own mother and all those who have gone before us are all still at work for us, the "Saints" of the church, who are still seeking our source of salvation.

Immaculate conception, ever virgin, certain levels of holiness, Assumption are all non-defenceable positions and that is the way it should be. It is something we, as Catholics accept with faith. The figure of Mary is both a comfort and a blessing in our search for salvation and that's the only thing for me, that is important.

I think it is also worth noting that our salvation doesn't depend upon our beliefs about Mary. Salvation comes only through the grace of God. We are in relationship with Mary only to help us stay on the "right" path and we look to her to help us plead on our behalf, just as the wedding party at Cana did.

A great lady once told me when I was in the same vein as the original post. "Leon, don't worry about it. If it doesn't make sence to you right now . . . don't worry about it. The Catholic church has a very long tradition and has been a help to a great many people before you. If something doesn't make sence right now . . . don't let it stand in your way. Dwell on rest of the church and in time, with the help of the "spirit" it might be a help to you too."

She was right of course. Some things just take a little time and a little prayer.

Peace

-- Leon (vol@weblink2000.net), November 26, 2003.

''Immaculate Conception, ever virgin, certain levels of holiness, Assumption are all __non-defencible__ positions and that is the way it should be. It is something we, as Catholics accept with faith.

Leon; please consider that all these are __revealed truths__,

A revealed truth is something man wouldn't ordinarily have known by empirical evidence. Just because he wouldn't have known without a revelation doesn't mean they are indefensible truths. (Not ''positions'', TRUTHS) --We know them to be true on the word of the Church, and conducted to us from the holy apostles. They received them from God, just as surely as God spoke through His Prophets in the Old Testament. The fact is, it requires faith FIRST, to believe that God reveals Himself and His Will; and once this is believed all other truth is definitely defensible. We cannot call ourselves the faithful if we remain unconvinced of the authority of God's Word. --And the Holy Catholic Church is our everlasting source and guarantor of this Word; all thanks to Our Holy Redeemer, Jesus Christ /

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), November 26, 2003.

"so to exalt Mary is to dishonour God,"

Mary is is the mother of God! To exalt God's mother is to dishonor God?!? I don't think so.

More like, the more you honor the Mother of God, the more God is pleased with you.

The more you insult the Mother of God, the more God is wroth with you.

So be careful. You wouldn't want to be going around insulting some weight-lifter's mom, would you? And God is infinately more powerful than some measly little human weight-lifter, right?

Better not insult God's mom, either!

-- Psyche +AMDG+ (psychicquill@yahoo.com), November 26, 2003.

"I dont serve them dont need them, as Jesus is my guide."

Luke 2:51 "And he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was subject to them. And his mother kept all these words in her heart."

To have God as your Father, you must have the Church as your Mother. The Catholic Church, that is, with the four marks: One (Canticles), Holy, Catholic (Universal) and Apostolic.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), November 26, 2003.

Thank you eugene

I think we are probably both saying basicly the same thing. When I made the statement that they are non-defenseable trueths, I meant that we could not prove that they were true, we believed them by faith.

Making the claim that they were apostolic, just not Biblical, doesn't prove anything to someone outside our faith. Even in my own mind, making claims like that sends up a lot of red flags and I say to myself . . . you have no basis in fact, such a claims are actually true. It sent me in the wrong direction and made by struggle to accept all things Catholic a longer one.

-- Leon (soft@talker.com), November 29, 2003.

Jesus never called Mary his mother, He knew that if he would people would worship her, which people do right now with Idols. Read MATT-12.46-50. Jesus says He who does the will of my Father in heaven, the same is my brother,sister, and mother. She was a sinner just like you and me. People believe that she was tho only person to not sin, well this would contradict Romans 3.23. Mary was chosen by God, but she is no different then you or me, God chose her to be the vessel to carry Jesus. NO ONE can be holy like God becuz we are humans and have sin condemned in the flesh. In order to be saved we have to accept Jesus Crist as our Lord and Saviour and NO ONE else. We should only focus on Jesus Christ, and have a personal relationship with him. If you can't back it up with the word [Not the Apocrypha] then we have nothing to back it up with and it is coming from man which knows nothing without God's Spirit. I hope this wasn't to babbling, but this is what I have learned by reading the word and praying.

-- Josh (Gt350cobra@hotmail.com), November 30, 2003.

Well you are just crazy.

''She was a sinner just like you and me. People believe that she was tho only person to not sin, well this would contradict Romans, etc.''

No, Josh. It would contradict YOU. Since you have nothing ata all to back your opinion, we can dismiss your foolishness.

What little you know of Romans, the epistle would not fill the tiniest bug's navel. What you know about Jesus is so barely true it's pathetic. Read the first few verses of chapter 1, Romans. There is the Catholic Church as Paul acknowledged her! Mary was conceived without sin and lived a perfectly sinless life. Take it; eat it, know it. Now, speak when you are spoken to, infant!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), November 30, 2003.

I read the 1st chapter in Romans. 1.-Says nothing About MAry 2.-Says nothing about a CAtholic Church 3.-He's preaching in Rome, Doesn't make him Catholic It talks about them worshipping false Gods made unto four footed beasts. If you read the whole thing. You shouold read Exodus 20.1-18 It's the 10 commandments, you will read about putting othjer images before God. Can you please back up stuff up with scripture.

-- josh (gt350cobra@hotmail.com), November 30, 2003.

It's not Mary I referred to but the Church. The Catholic Church is in Rome since the time of the apostles, as Rom 1:7-8 states very plainly.

Since the Church is who upholds all truth in Christianity from the beginning, whatever she has taught us about Mary is perfectly true. We accept it in faith, since the Church has Christ's unfailing promise of infallibility.

Now, if you have problems with that, Josh, don't come here with them. You don't have to believe anything you don't wish to. But we will not be subject to your criticism regarding anything biblical, spiritual, or Christian. You have no authority at all. Just keep your unwelcome opinions.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), November 30, 2003.

I have no problem checking out, was doing some studying on apocrypha when I got here, but to say my last words, I hope that you find a real relationship with Jesus Christ, and put him above everything, He is salvation and not a church. It's not about the religion it's about the relationship. God Bless

-- josh (gt350cobra@hotmail.com), November 30, 2003.

I have no problem checking out, was doing some studying on apocrypha when I got here,

no, you are studying seven books of the bible that were innacurately deemed in the 16th century to be appocrypha, and removed later in the 16th century. even martin luther recognized at least some value to the seven books cut from the bible. the true apocrypha take up a rather large vault in the vatican archives, and have never graced the pages of any recorded bible production.

I hope that you find a real relationship with Jesus Christ

we catholics already do...

and put him above everything

yep, we do this too. protestants have this strange idea that by respecting mary, or anyone for that matter, that we subtract faith, respect and love from God. that simply isnt the case. because you love your mother, does that mean that you cant love your father? no!!! so how can anyone presume to limit their love and respect for people thinking that it can cap their overwelming heart for Christ... this is not a possibility for me.

He is salvation and not a church.

youre a pretty sure shooter, im marking that youre probably pretty good with a pistol. all jesting aside, you ought to consider the catholic church, we're matching up bullet for bullet so far.

It's not about the religion it's about the relationship.

ouch, well... three out of four aint bad. now, lemme describe where this one went awry. secularism has forced a division whereby we see religion as an institution, which often by default can end up getting in our way of reaching God. now, there is a solution which is clear and simple: break this emerging paradigm of the definition of religion and redefine it how it is meant to be... religion IS the relationship with God. in all things we catholics are religious because we find God through our faith put into practice by the sacraments prescribed by what? our RELIGION. the two, religion and relationship to God, are completely inseparable.

God Bless

God bless you too

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), December 01, 2003.

Without the Church there would be no relationship, because you would never have heard of Jesus Christ.

"Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved." Yet how will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent?" (Romans 10:13-15)

And - who will send them, if not the Church??

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 01, 2003.

Josh, You mentioned that God said not to make any images. However isn't funny that the same God COMMANDED, a mere 5 chapters later, that the Israelites make the Ark with it's 2 angels. God wasn't forbidding the making of an image, rather He forbid the making of an image to worship it. + AMDG

-- Jeff (jmajoris@optonline.net), December 01, 2003.

That would be the same God who commanded golden mice to be made, and golden tumors (1 Sam 6:4), and who commanded Moses to make a graven image of a serpent, through which the healing power of God was made manifest. Seems God has no reservations about using graven images for holy purposes. I wonder if Josh's church has a cross in it? That's a graven image too.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 02, 2003.

Catholics have always known exactly how Mary relates to the Church, to the world and history, and to God Almighty; in particular her son Jesus Christ. Almost every Catholic is secure in this grace, this love of Mary, because the soul demands it. It's unnatural NOT to love Mary. A soul committed to Jesus Christ can't avoid such a devotion; since she is the personification of true love for Jesus. No one soul has ever adored God in Jesus Christ as much as his holy mother.

This is self- proven; and Catholics aren't concerned at ALL about finding a biblical instruction to verify it.

Because the gospels were written as God's revelation to the world of His Holy Son Jesus Christ, whom He promised for our salvation, the written Word has centered on HIM. Only on Jesus; and no other event or subject except Him and what He accomplished in obedience to His Almighty Father. Everything written is seen as relating to Christ as the Eternal Son and Redeemer of mankind.

Non-Catholics who depend upon the Bible alone forget this bare background that makes the Holy Bible serve one single topic, Christ. The rest of Christian reality those periferal topics like the Church and her subsequent history, Mary and the apostles, etc., are NOT the purpose for which a Bible, the holy scriptures, were written or assembled later on. Christ is at the center, and the rest is left for the Church to explain and reveal. That's why Tradition is important; because the gospels had Christ and Christ only to preach.

But that shouldn't mean the other truth will not be taught. That doesn't mean Mary or the Church were merely wrapping paper and disposable. They are terribly important for a Christian; as God's wonderful signs and assurances to His people. They teach us the glory which love for Jesus is, potentially, for every soul. Our souls become elevated in love for Jesus Christ, when we learn of that great love Mary has for Him.

Non-Catholics go wild searching for clues to this instruction in the scriptures; because of their fear of ''idolising'' or ''making Mary equal'' in estimation to God. That worry is farcical; not grounded in love at all. It's grounded in fear of God, the jealous One of the Old Testament!

That fear runs counter to all Jesus Christ ever taught us about Himself, or God the Father. Everything He taught is grounded in love!

Mary is LOVE for Jesus, as any fool can see, right in the bible. The Annunciation & Nativity narratives show this clearly; just read Luke 1 :26 through :55 /

If realising the unique importance of Mary the Holy Mother of Jesus can be seen as idolatry by some, why would Jesus have even brought her into existence? To be a wedge between Himself and believers? What an idiotic idea!

Even the Bible was an instrument of God's Divine love for us; just as Mary and His saints are. But wayward men insist on turning it into a ''battle plan'' to fight the Church Jesus founded; disputing in the scriptures the teachings of His Church. It wasn't written to tear us part but to unite us behind Christ. Why is it that Catholics see this clearly; and those who reject the Catholic Church find it impossible to understand?

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 02, 2003.

/////////

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 04, 2003.

We are now in the Octave of her feast: Our Lady of Guadalupe, patroness of the Americas.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 04, 2003.

romans 3:23 "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" Why is mary and exception to this?

-- Kaitlin Riley (kriley6688@yahoo.com), December 07, 2003.

mary is an exception to this for a variety of reasons... only two of which will i discuss, since so many others may wish to respond as well.

1) Paul wrote quite some time after the assumption of Jesus. furthermore, we KNOW that Jesus, having been fully man (as well as fully God) did not fall short of heaven. if there is no exception to this statement, then you must by force condemn Jesus as well. BUT because paul writes AFTER the time of Jesus and Mary, we can assume that he is speaking in present tense, words which apply to the people of that time. you might read the verse more accurately as "all alive have sinned and fallen short"

2) Divine origin. does God, who is all good and pure come from sin? does God contain origins in sin? IF mary MUST recieve sin as part of the nature of man, then so also MUST you apply this rule to Jesus as well. since we know Jesus is without sin, and without origins of sin, then we must assume that the rule of sin being passed onto the child does not necessarily apply to mary. if we assume this, and we hypothesize that Jesus had no origin in sin, we must arrive at the conclusion that mary was without original sin AND free from sin thereafter, at least until such time as Jesus was born. HOWEVER, knowing God to be loving, why would He protect one of His from sin until Jesus was born, and then risk the damnation of that one who had followed so devoutly by allowing sin to attack them? therefore we must assume that mary was held blameless all her life.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), December 07, 2003.

mary was chosen to carry the son of god because she was a decendent of king david out of the tribe of juda. and this was fortold long before mary was born.. god chose the tribe of juda because of his love for david, a man after gods own heart.. jesus was often refured to as THE LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDA. but i think mary probuly was the most holy of the women in the tribe of juda but the bible does not say, and the reason i thank it does not say is because mary is not the subject at hand the savior jesus is ....jesus was not born into this world to give glorry to mary but to be the savior of all...

-- jason kennon (jasonkennon@yahoo.com), December 13, 2003.

That's right Jason. And if it were not for Mary, He would not have been born at all. You should thank her every day for the words which started God's plan of salvation in motion - "let it be done to me according to your word".

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 14, 2003.

Lets not forget that we are all fall short of the glory of God.Mary was born out of a male and female relationship.Just like you and I. Does anyone remember where Jesus refers to Mary as "woman"? That is a clear indicator that Mary was human like us.God picked Mary to give birth to Jesus because it was his will.She must have been the best candidate for the task.If Mary is holy,it is because God filled her with the spirit.Could pre-destination have anything to do with it since her existence is foretold in the old testament? This is my opinion: I believe if one prays directly to the Lord,his/her prayers will be heard.Since Jesus is the only mediator between God and man,there is no need to pray to anyone else.Pray to Jesus.

-- kirk charboneau (kirk_charboneau@yahoo.com), December 15, 2003.

Asking the saints to pray for us IS praying to Jesus, just like asking our families and friends to pray for us. God is the ultimate recipient of all prayer. Asking others to pray for us multiplies our prayers to Him.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 16, 2003.

God is alpha and omega,the first and the last.He hears all and sees all.Why not go directly to the source.The savior would have came reguardless if it were through Mary or someone else from Davids decendants.Remember who died on the cross for our sins and Marys too.That is the one we are to pray to.

-- kirk e charboneau (kirk_charboneau@yahoo.com), December 26, 2003.

"God is alpha and omega,the first and the last. He hears all and sees all.Why not go directly to the source"

A: You mean you never ask others to pray for you? Your family? Your friends? Your church? Asking others to pray for us has been a part of Christianity from the beginning, as clearly revealed in the New Testament. If New Testament Christians believed in prayer of intercession, which they did, and also believed that those who follow Christ will never die (which they did), then it is obvious that there would be no reason to stop asking for intercession once a friend or family member or apostle of saint had gone on to their eternal reward.

It is true that the Savior would come, even if Mary had refused to cooperate in God's plan. Perhaps God would have asked a different woman to be His mother. Perhaps later the same year. Or 100 years later. Or maybe 3,000 years later, in which case we would all be either Jewish or pagan. Thanks to Mary for making it possible for the Savior of the word to become man when He did, so that we might be able to know Him.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 26, 2003.

I would rather pray to God myself than ask someone else to do it for me.It would be a gesture of laziness to have someone else do for me what I should be doing on a continuos basis.

-- kirk e charboneau (kirk_charboneau@yahoo.com), January 02, 2004.

I need all the prayer I can get. That's why if I'm having trouble, I always ask a friend to pray for me, don't you?

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), January 02, 2004.

Dear Kirk:
You may pray as you please. It doesn't change the fact that Jesus Christ's mother MARY is HOLY. It cannot change the fact that we are all sinners and Mary isn't. For the innocent and Immaculated Mother of God to pray for us and for us to pray on our own, you should see-- is a drastically different thing.

Your prayer may or may not be answered; and neither might mine. On our best days we are simply unworthy.

The most Blessed Virgin Mary is Christ's own flesh and blood; His holy mother. We are like helpless idiots in comparison to her. Our prayer is like the moaning of prisoners in the dungeon. Mary's prayer is holy to her divine Son; sweeter and holier than the prayers of all angels and saints in concert; forget me and you, just sinners in a valley of tears. Oh ye of little faith!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 02, 2004.

There must have been a lot of lazy people in the early Church, because the New Testament is full of instances of people praying for one another, and asking for the prayers of others.

Can you imagine Paul saying "brethren, pray for us that the word of the Lord will spread rapidly and be glorified" (2 Thessalonians 3:1), and the brethren responding "don't be so lazy, pray for yourself"?

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 02, 2004.

I need all the prayer I can get. That's why if I'm having trouble, I always ask a friend to pray for me, don't you?

Yes! I hope you are praying for me.

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), January 02, 2004.

Yeah,Mary was a fantastic woman.She must have been the best woman from David's decendants.I still believe it was Gods will for her to give birth to his son and she had no control over it.And since God almighty has the power to look in the past and the future,he already knew he could trust her to carry out the task.I think that since it was Gods will for his son to be born,it happened and no human could interfere with his will,even the vessel itself.

-- kirk e charboneau (kirk_charboneau@yahoo.com), February 05, 2004.

"I think that since it was Gods will for his son to be born,it happened and no human could interfere with his will,even the vessel itself."

A: If no human being can interfere with His will, then you must believe that God wills men to sin and to reject Him. In fact, God wills that men avoid sin and remain faithful to Him, but the gift of free will which He has given to every human being allows us to place our will above His. That's why men sin, and that's why Mary was completely free to accept His request or reject it.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 06, 2004.

"Your prayer may or may not be answered; and neither might mine. On our best days we are simply unworthy.

The most Blessed Virgin Mary is Christ's own flesh and blood; His holy mother. We are like helpless idiots in comparison to her. Our prayer is like the moaning of prisoners in the dungeon. Mary's prayer is holy to her divine Son; sweeter and holier than the prayers of all angels and saints in concert; forget me and you, just sinners in a valley of tears. Oh ye of little faith! "

This would deny the mediator His immediate task that Job spoke of (Job 9:33). Christ is the one who mediates us to God, do we need a mediator to Christ? For He forgave the sinful woman and He even said "I tell you, her sinks - and the are many - have been forgiven," Luke 7:47. So that even the lowest of the low no matter how unworthy we are that His love for His is so wide that He still reaches out to us and answers our prayers, because God can not be swamped by too many prayers or too much work for He is God.

So then Mary is like an over night fed ex for our prayers? (excuse me if that was offensive).

I respect the mother, but her task was completed as it was meant to be. Just as Noah's or Moses'. Christ is what we need for He is the redeemer.

Of course Eugene if you see fit to downsize me for some ridiculous reason....don't respond at all, I was curious to hear actual feedback on the issue.

-- Nick (mhmm@wawa.com), April 05, 2004.

Dear Nick,
You aren't being downsized. You have said nothing wrong. We need Our Lord for our One Mediator between God the Father Almighty and his creatures. All of us depend on Jesus Christ for everything. Even Mary herself receives every grace through Him from the Father. You have to distinguish between the holy attributes we're talking about here. Intercession by prayer is not Mediation at the right hand of God the Father. Christ mediates; He is our Champion who brings us all before His Father. Our Blessed Mother doesn't go over Jesus' head to mediate for us. That office belongs to the Lamb of God alone. (Rev. Chapter 5.)
Our Blessed Mother prays to Jesus. Plain and simple; her prayer is heard over and above all prayers because He loves her over all souls and over all creation. How do we know? It just stands to reason. His holy mother is the closest person ever, to Jesus. The bond between mother and Son is unbreakable. If we would hesitate to acknowledge this most basic human relationship as natural to Jesus Christ the Man, then we deny that He is True God and also True Man. Mary's Immaculate Heart is that mother's heart which is closest to her Son's Sacred Heart. It follows that her petitions and hopes are close to His Heart; not only because they are more intimately heard than the prayer of sinners; but because every soul united to her is doubly precious to Him. They are truly souls Jesus appreciates and desires to help the most; for His mother's own gratification. Can anyone doubt Jesus is eternally overjoyed by Mary's happiness? He will do whatever it takes to make her happy.

We, in turn must have unbounded faith in Him, because all power is given to Him in heaven and on earth by His Almighty Father. That is what's really meant by His glorious title, our One Mediator.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), April 05, 2004.