Im basically a former Catholic/Christian who goes to a Catholic school and forced to the Basilica every Sunday... Needless to say I have a very dim view of organized religion right now, but even with all the religious classes I still have a few nagging questions I would love to have answered conclusively so I can finally make an intelligent decision on my spirituality... :

1. Where does the church get its idea of Divine Inspiration in relation to the authors of the bible.

2. Is it absolutely necessary to accept the truthfulness of the bible in order to be a good christian?

3. Can someone accept the humanity/divinity of Christ without beleiving in the sanctity of the bible?

4. Why does the church insist that Jesus is the only way to heaven?

5. Can someone be a good person, but not be a christian, and still go to Heaven?

Danke in advance to everyone who shows me facts or at least intelligent theories that help me answer these questions. :)

peace

-- M0kkz (m0kk3n@hotmail.com), December 05, 2003

Answers

Good questions, M0kkz. I'll give a few short answers, but I'm not as "orthodox" as other Catholics, so I might sun the risk of being slapped around by others who post....(1)Divine Inspiration: it is believed that the authors of the scriptures were inspired by God while they wrote down the stories, meaning God was with them in spirit; I don't think that the Bible is the literal word-for-word of God, but certainly God's inspiration can be seen in the Bible because it is full of beuautiful scenes of holiness, mercy, faith, sacrifice and courage. (2) truthfulness of the Bible: I think you need to say what you mean by "truthfulness"; if you mean that every word of the Bible is true and not in error, I would have to disagree with you, because I do not believe that the Bible is inerrant because it was written by HUMANS under the inspiration of God; to be a "good Christian" I think all you need to do is follow commandments of Jesus - to love God and to love your fellow human beings, to follow the examples of Jesus. (3) Humanity/Divinity of Christ: Yes, you can accept these things about Jesus without believing that the Bible is the literal holy word of God; what's important is the spirit of the Bible, not the words of the Bible. (4) Jesus the only way: the Church insists on this because they believe that Christ founded the Church and taught them to teach this about himself and because Jesus said "I am the way the truth the life", but that quote from Jesus can be interpreted in many ways. (5) Still go to Heaven: Yes, I think anyone who lives a good and ethical life will go to heaven, even if they aren't a Christian. After all, Jesus said we would not be judged by how often we said "Lord, Lord" but by how we lived out our faith. ....I hope this helps you. Again, these answers are mine alone, and many Catholics may not agree with me. And that's ok. Be your own mind, friend. ..Peace and God bless! ~

-- David Dulin (ddulin@hotpop.com), December 05, 2003.

1. Where does the church get its idea of Divine Inspiration in relation to the authors of the bible.

first and foremost, it is written in the bible (timothy, if my memory serves me correctly). second, no one can point out any way by which the dogma prescribed by the bible is false...

2. Is it absolutely necessary to accept the truthfulness of the bible in order to be a good christian?

yes and no, in a convoluted sense. is the bible ENTIRELY accuarate in every regard? not necessarily. it was, after all, written by man as much as 150 years after Christ. HOWEVER, while certain facts (such as who came to Jesus' tomb, geneology, etc) may contain a few interpretive differences, the dogma of the bible is all entirely infallable. namely, yes, in order to be a good christian you must recognize all prescribed dogma of the bible as innerrant.

3. Can someone accept the humanity/divinity of Christ without beleiving in the sanctity of the bible?

i suppose someone could have a warm fuzzy feeling which leads them to Christ without the bible, however, in order to have the fullness of truth they must recognize that the bible is the inspired word of God, and all its dogmas are binding.

4. Why does the church insist that Jesus is the only way to heaven?

simple, Jesus tells us, "I am the way, the truth and the light, no one may come to the father but through me"

5. Can someone be a good person, but not be a christian, and still go to Heaven?

yes, if the person has never been exposed to christian truth, has devoutly followed the precepts of their religion (assuming that religions precepts dont violate the commandments) and has avoided sin as much as possible then that person may be saved because it is safe to assume that had they been exposed to christian truth they would have accepted it and followed it devoutly. this does not apply to those who are offered truth and reject it.

Danke

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), December 05, 2003.

We know the Holy Bible is the Word of god because the Church founded by Jesus christ pronounces it so. Until the Church spoke to the world, all the Bible was to the ordinary senses was a collection of books preserved from the beginning of that very Church, --

What gave this Church the authority to make a distinction: ''We have the inerrant Word of God, -- the New Testament of Jesus Christ; not a work of men ultimately, but a work of the Holy Spirit.''

Why should anyone accept the word of a religious group, on something so unusual and unyielding--? ? ?

There are good reasons, which established the hioly Bible from the start. Of these reasons, only a few empirical ones came with authority. irst; the gospels were written by eye-witnesses. People who personally staked their lives on Jesus Christ, the signs they saw of His holiness, His great powers and wisdom, all unmistakably divine. There were a few who actually saw Him die on the cross, and rise again the 3rd day--AFTER He had prophesied that He would. They knew He was telling them the truth; a revelation of the divine.

Two: Not only did these witnesses command the faith of all who heard them; and afterward also preached the same Gospel as disciples. Along with their personal testimony, the people saw THEM perform miracles. They saw THEM living in holiness and truth, even when they were faced with mortal persecution. A majority of these early witnesses laid down their lives for this Lord Jesus Christ. Who won't have faith, then, in the testimonies of so many saints and martyrs; as well as the books or letters they left behind?

Three, there is the direct influence of the Holy Spirit, God himself; which though spiritual and unseen, must nevertheless give our souls the most powerful incentive to faith.

We realise that a person who rejects the idea of any spiritual truth to begin with will obviously remain unmoved. But if we believe in God, then our hearts have no real defense against this greater influence. The world has its power to divert souls. but God speaks inwardly to every man of good will. He can convert the most obnoxious of skeptics. Jesus accosted Saul the Pharisee --a terrible persecutor of Christians, on the road to Damascus; and personally turned PAUL into a quivering, helpless convert to the Christian faith! It CAN be done, where god intervenes.

We have Paul's own testimony to this power. His letters form an important part of the New Testament.

This makes the Bible positively irresistible to any person of good will who cares for the truth.

Others will follow their own belly; their passions and hedonism. They will turn away and choose to deny God. But men and women of good will are naturally inclined to follow where God leads. That's all God really asks of us; that we meet Him half-way as the soul's token of good will.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 05, 2003.

You do have to believe that the Bible is inerrant in order to be Catholic, because the Church Christ founded, the biblical foundation of truth, teaches infallibly that the Bible is inerrant. This is the ONLY way that anyone can know that the bible is inerrant, or for that matter which writings actually comprise the Bible. The Bible depends on God for its inerrancy, and on the Church for its identity. The Church infallibly defined the Canon of Scripture for all time at the end of the 4th century. Thereafter, no changes could validly be made to the Sacred scriptures. Of course that didn't deter manmade churches, which proceded to toss out any parts of God's Holy Word that didn't support their novel doctrines. Even though they ravaged the Old Testament, they were thankfully prevented from doing the same to the New Testament, though that was their intended purpose. It's an interesting contradiction that Protestants freely ignored the Church's infallible definition of the Canon, ripping out any books they didn't like - yet now believe with infallible certainty that the books they didn't throw out are the inspired Word of God - even though the presence of these books in the Bible rests solely on the same authority as the books they threw out - the God-given authority of the Catholic Church. In any case, it really shouldn't matter to a Protestant whether the Bible is inerrant or not, since their interpretations of it conflict at every turn, thereby demonstrating that an inerrant book in the hands of unauthorized, fallible interpreters is a sure road to heresy.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 05, 2003.

Then how come even the Pope believes in evolution? Evolution is not consistant with the Bible! And anyone here can go to any of the many numerous threads on evolution and see for themselves that most of the laity believe the world was created through evolution. So don't LIE Paul! Does the POPE say that's OK too?

-- Jeanie (mary_kissmiss@hotmail.com), December 05, 2003.

Jeanie,

Why would you same something like that? Are you that ignorrant? It is not true that just because you are a Catholic you are "saved." The Church has never, ever, ever taught that.

However protestants do. Hence why protestants ask "are you saved?" The Catholic answer to that would be "I am working on it."

So how about no more crap from you Jeanie.

-- Scott (papasquat10@hotmail.com), December 05, 2003.

Isn't it telling; when Jeannie's back is up against the wall she reverts to outright FLAMING of the same Church where the Holy Bible is first established for the world of believers. Jeannie will not tolerate anything positive being proposed for a Church which she rejects. This isn't good will. It's adamant anti-Catholicism UNDRESSED, NAKED! Haha! Where will you turn for comfort now, Jeannie? The Bible? The Bible is Catholic doctrine! The everlasting Catholic doctrine of Jesus Christ!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 05, 2003.

Then how come even the Pope believes in evolution?

first off, the pope does NOT believe in excorcism. that is yet another lie on which you have been corrected and yet continue to propegate because you are a tool of satan and worship the beast, martin luther.

Evolution is not consistant with the Bible!

quite wrong. conversely, evolution is not INconsistant with the bible. if you knew enough hebrew you would understand, but you like the bible parsed and cut to fit your beliefs, so you dont bother to look at any real facts.

And anyone here can go to any of the many numerous threads on evolution and see for themselves that most of the laity believe the world was created through evolution.

and you know what? thats their right to believe it. YOU cant prove that evolution did not occur. the books you prescribe are written by disgruntled ministers with a penchant for bending fact, and youre interpretations of hebrew scripture are wholly errant.

So don't LIE Paul! Does the POPE say that's OK too?

what a rude, hypocrit you are. servant of satan, begone from here.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), December 05, 2003.

The Pope did not say he believes in evolution. He simply outlined, in wise and authoritative terms, the correct attitude of a Christian toward scientific discovery. Specifically, he detailed exactly what a Catholic may and may not believe concerning evolution and its relevance to human life. In any case, the Bible doesn't say a thing about evolution one way or the other. How could it? No-one at the time had ever heard of evolution. And why would it? The Bible doesn't describe DNA synthesis either - but it happens. The Bible is not a book of science. But there is nothing in the Bible that conflicts with the findings of any branch of science. Truth cannot conflict with truth.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 05, 2003.

>Im basically a former Catholic/Christian who goes to a Catholic > school and forced to the Basilica every Sunday...

Go into the Basilica when no one is around. Sit quietly and meet Christ. I think you will be impressed. People are noisy and often make too much out of things. What is important is your relationship with God. You will find Him there. Millions before you have...

In Christ, Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), December 06, 2003.

Jeanie says: Evolution is not consistant with the Bible!

True enough, and THE BIBLE IS WRONG! Just as the Bible is wrong in thousands of other details. The Earth is not flat. Rabbits do not chew the cud.

When we say that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, we do not mean that it is the compleat science textbook. We mean that we treat it as a BINDING CONTRACT WITH GOD. We mean that we strictly play by its rules. People who claim that they do treat it as the last word on everything have high divorce rates. Maybe this is because they view the Bible as a science textbook rather than a contract with God.

We do not even claim that it is a complete contract. Some rules were only meant for pre-Christian Israelites. There are situations where it offers no clear guidance. Here we follow the authority of the apostles' successors.

This is why, whatever truths are uncovered by scientists, or critical Bible scholars, or historians, or anyone, they cannot shake our faith. Laws and contracts are based on codes, tradition and authority, not on science. We can acknowledge the wonderful Universe that God has revealed to us through modern science, and at the same time we can remain fiercely loyal to the letter and spirit of our ancient and holy tradition.

-- __ (__@__.__), December 06, 2003.

Eugene says, "The Bible is Catholic doctrine!" No, the Bible is God's revelation to mankind.

-- Jeanie (mary_kissmiss@hotmail.com), December 06, 2003.

Paul said:

The Bible is not a book of science. But there is nothing in the Bible that conflicts with the findings of any branch of science. Truth cannot conflict with truth.

But to say that it didn't happen the way God says it did is calling God a liar. God doesn't lie.

-- Jeanie (mary_kissmiss@hotmail.com), December 06, 2003.

Hi paul h,

You said ...those who have been offered the Truth and have rejected it... (I'm paraphrasing here) basically would go to hell. I know this is Catholic Christian doctrine 101 so I'm not specifically arguing with you. Anyone can answer. I've always found this teaching troubling. Here's a "What if"...what if a person died before they ultimately would have come to accepting the Truth had they lived longer? Peoples lives lead them into additional understandings. I'm in a very different place spiritually today than I was say 10 years ago. I have always tried to lead a "good" life. Good works... ethics, kindness to others etc... although at the time, I was a bit agnostic. The only difference in the "real me" of 10 years ago as opposed to today is that I have returned to the Church. My instincts (I know they don't mean anything from a Catholic or scriptural standpoint) tell me that, had I died 5 or 10 years ago, I would not necessarilly be in the process of suffering the eternal fires of hell today. To Jeanie, I know you can find Bible verse after verse to prove me wrong but I feel that the ultimate decision happens after we die. Being "rotten to the core" seems the best path to damnation as opposed to not coming to full acceptance of the Truth... even when it has been offered. I know many good Protestants, Jews, agnostics and even a few followers of Islam that I would hope to see in the afterlife. I think we can trust that God will make the correct decisions when the time comes. When we Christians,"threaten" unbelievers or people whose understanding is "incorrect" with damnation,... calling them satan and backing it up with Bible verses, I think we drive them further away. I'm not sure it does any good and maybe some spiritual harm. Just my thoughts, Jim

-- Jim Furst (furst@flash.net), December 06, 2003.

Eugene says, "The Bible is Catholic doctrine, No, the Bible is God's revelation to mankind: Jeanie (mary_kissmiss@hotmail.com), December 06, 2003.

YES; the Bible is God's revelation to mankind; Catholic doctrine. --(Same thing.)

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 06, 2003.

Dear Jim Furst:
There's absolutely nothing wrong with your being troubled over some aspects of a belief. You say, ''I've always found this teaching troubling. Here's a 'What if', ''

The true believer subjects his human understanding to the authority of the Church; because without her teaching we will have been in in the most troubling condition of all; mortal sin.

I didn't say you MUST give in without contradiction. I mean you can contemplate ''what ifs'' and think over your personal journey again and again. By so doing, and making the attempt, you will reconcile yourself even to doctrines that troubled you at first. Great saints such as Augustine travelled the same road; it's part of everyone's spiritual growth. They who simply REJECT some doctrine make it impossible to reconcile themselves. Look at Jeannie and Faith. Nothing moves their hardened hearts. You are showing truer faith, because you didn't shut the door on the Church over points that don't come easily for you..

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 06, 2003.

"But to say that it didn't happen the way God says it did is calling God a liar. God doesn't lie."

A: OK - what is God's explanation for the observable fact that plant and animal species disappear over time, and are constantly replaced by new but similar species that never existed before? How does the Bible say this happens? It does happen - there can be no rational and honest question about that. If the Bible explained how this happens - or how a cell divides - or how continental drift occurs - then I would have taken that as the most authoritative explanation available, and could have avoided the tedious and expensive process of procuring a university degree in biology. But since the Bible doesn't say anything whatsoever about such scientific matters, I look to science to provide the answers; and no answers discovered and verified by science can possibly conflict with anything God has revealed.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 06, 2003.

God's revelation to mankind came through the preaching of Jesus Christ to the Apostles, 350 years before the Bible was compiled. There is nothing in the Bible that was not believed and taught by the Catholic Church during all those intervening years. If it was not already Catholic doctrine, it would not have been allowed into the Bible when the Catholic Church compiled the Book.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 06, 2003.

"...what if a person died before they ultimately would have come to accepting the Truth had they lived longer? Peoples lives lead them into additional understandings.

i would hope, jim, that such a person would be protected by their guardian angel until at least such a time as they HAD accepted truth. HOWEVER, there is no way to know, if such a person dies, if that person would EVER have a conversion of faith, and we are told to be always ready, because death comes like a theif in the night.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), December 06, 2003.

"i would hope, jim, that such a person would be protected by their guardian angel until at least such a time as they HAD accepted truth. HOWEVER, there is no way to know, if such a person dies, if that person would EVER have a conversion of faith, and we are told to be always ready, because death comes like a theif in the night. "

Yet God knows. So we should not worry.

In Christ, -bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), December 06, 2003.

Sir or Ma'am,

These answers can be found in the Authorized Version of 1611, commonly known as the King James Bible. Please pray to God that he may open your eyes to the truth, because we have been told a lie. (Romans 1:18-2:16 should bring some light) - Please read it carefully

OUR CONDITION God's Word says -

Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

Romans 3:10 "there is none righteous, no, not one;"

Isaiah 64:6 "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

THE PUNISHMENT FOR OUR SIN The Bible says -

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Revelation 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (see also Matthew 10:28 and 23:33, Luke 16:19-31)

1 Thessalonians 1:7-8 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" (see also 1 Peter 3:7, Revelation 21:8, Revelation 19:20 OUR HOPE The Bible says -

Romans 5:8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." 1 Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit." (see also Isaiah 52:14, 53:2-12)

1 John 5:11-13 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" (see also Hebrews 9:24-28 and 10:11-12, Ephesians 2:8-9)

WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR SALVATION

The Bible says - Acts 16:29-32 "Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house." Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and belive in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 1 Timothy 2:3-7 (continued from 2:1-2)"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (see also 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:17, 2 Corinthians 5:21, John 6:37-38)

THE PRODUCT OF A SAVED LIFE

James 2:14-20 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God."

Galatians 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

There are many deceiving lies (Matthew 15:7-11, Mark 7:6-9, Colossians 2:20-22), and the only weapon we have is the light of the Word of God(Hebrews 4:12-13). How do we know it's true? By comparing scripture with scripture

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

-- Adam (bluesplayer7@hotmail.com), December 24, 2003.

We have NOT been told any lies, Adam. You haven't revealed anything here we were not taught. You seem to believe you're breaking new ground. Sorry, but no, you're not.

Your own ancestors were Catholics, back in your family tree. An exception would be ancestors who were Jews or Asians or Africans.

You are a descendant of Catholics. Of all your Catholic ancestors, a number were faithful, and with the help of the Church, their salvation was assured them. Through Our Lord Jesus Christ, of course.

If any of your Catholic ancestors were UN-faithful in the end, they were damned. You see, Catholics aren't taught we all have an easy salvation assured us. Sin can damn even Catholics. But not FAITHFUL Catholics. We know they're saved; because Jesus Christ died for each one. If you were a faithful man, you'd be assured of salvation. Let me warn you now; just because you can copy Bible verse and bring it here is no sign you're saved.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 24, 2003.

The problem with the "authorized version" is that those who "authorized" it had no authority to do so. Furthermore, the King James version is the LEAST accurate translation still in common use. A PROTESTANT Bible society published a list of more than 3,500 translational errors in the original KJV. Or do you use the "Revised KJV", in which about half the errors of the original KJV have been corrected? Of course, if that's the case, you no longer use the "authorized" version. No matter what version you use however, the writings that are included in it were placed there by the Holy Catholic Church, who alone is responsible for compiling the Bible.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 24, 2003.

The king who "authorized" Adam's "bible," James the 1st, murdered many innocent Catholics.

He also "authorized" that his "bible" should declare "not divinely inspired" seven Old Testament books that had been considered divinely inspired by all Christians for over 1,000 years.

It's time for all KJV books to be buried with their owners, with no new copies being printed. I call 'em KJV "books," because they don't fully deserve to be called "bibles."

-- (Goodbye@KJV.com), December 25, 2003.

James Akin has been working on a project to make a list of errors in the KJV. You can find what he has come up with so far at: Translation Errors in KJV

Another site to look at is: Errors and Mistranslations in the KJV

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), December 26, 2003.