I heard a friend recently say that there is a movement within the Catholic Church to put the Virgin Mary on the same pedestal as God and/or Jesus (kind of like a trinity of 'The Father, the Son, and Mary,' instead of Holy Spirit). I have no clue where he got this from, but am interested in knowing if this has any basis in truth.

-- (just@curious.com), January 21, 2004

Answers

Of course there isn't. A creature cannot be placed on the same level as her Creator. The movement you are referring to is an effort by some small groups to have Mary officially recognized as "Co-Redemptrix", a title which recognizes Mary's unique cooperation in God's redemptive plan. Some Protestant groups, failing to understand the deeper meaning of the title, claim that it would make Mary equal to God. Even though that is not true, the Church has not officially recognized that title, largely because of the confusion it might cause among the uninformed, both Catholic and non-Catholic.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 21, 2004.

Greetings in the Sacred Hearts. Some clarifications. "some small groups to have Mary officially recognized as "Co-Redemptrix","???????

The international Catholic organization, Vox Populi Mariae Mediatrici (Voice of the People for Mary Mediatrix), is a principal movement amidst others petitioning our Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, to solemnly define the Maternal Mediation of the Blessed Virgin Mary. This international Catholic organization carries with it the episcopal endorsements of over 550 bishops, inclusive of 43 Cardinals and nearly 7 million petitions from the faithful spanning over 155 countries, all united in the requesting of the solemn definition of Our Lady’s Maternal Mediation. Vox Populi Mariae Mediatrici works in complete obedience and solidarity to the Papal Magisterium of Pope John Paul II in exercising the canonical right and duty encoded in Canon 212, §2,3: "The Christian faithful are free to make known their needs, especially spiritual ones, and their desires to the pastors of the Church"; "In accord with the knowledge, competence and preeminence which they possess, they have the right and even at times a duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church, and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful, with due regard for the integrity of faith and morals and reverence toward their pastors, and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons."

SMALL ENOUGH???

the Church has not officially recognized that title???

Perhaps "The Church has not proclaimed as a Dogma" that is different than to "not officially recognized that title". Please let's read:

For a member of the Catholic faith, the question of whether a given theological position constitutes an authentic doctrinal teaching of the Church or not is essentially manifested by its presence (or lack thereof) in the teachings from recognized Church authority. The official teaching authority of the Catholic Church, or "Magisterium," consists of the official teaching of the pope and bishops in union with the pope under the general guidance of the Holy Spirit. [Cf. Second Vatican Council, Dei Verbum, II, nn. 9-10]

Although there exists a certain hierarchy amidst the expressions of official Catholic teaching authority, from the defined dogma of an ecumenical council or papal ex cathedra infallible statement, to general ecumenical council doctrinal teaching, to encyclical letters, to more general papal teachings contained in papal addresses, there at the same time remains the general directive for the Catholic faithful that is stated by the Second Vatican Council of the need for a religious assent of mind and heart to the manifest mind of the pope, even when he is not speaking infallibly. [Cf. Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, n. 25] And certainly all doctrinal teachings from ecumenical councils, papal encyclicals, or consistently repeated papal teachings would constitute authentic doctrinal teachings of the Catholic Church.

Let us now apply this criteria for official Catholic doctrine to the question of the doctrinal status of Marian co-redemption.

From the basis of the doctrinal teachings of the Second Vatican Council alone, the certainty of the doctrinal status of Marian co­ redemption is unquestionable. Vatican II repeatedly teaches Mary's unique participation in the redemption of Jesus Christ: ....She devoted herself totally, as handmaid of the Lord, to the person and work of her Son, under and with him, serving the mystery of redemption, by the grace of Almighty God. Rightly, therefore, the Fathers see Mary not merely as passively engaged by God, but as freely cooperating in the work of man's salvation through faith and obedience; [Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, n. 56] And further: Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in union with her Son unto the cross, where she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, associated herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim which was born of her. [Lumen Gentium, n. 58] And further by the Council:

She conceived, brought forth, and nourished Christ, she presented Him to the Father in the temple, shared her Son's suffering as He died on the cross. Thus, in a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the work of the Savior in restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace. [Lumen Gentium, n. 61]

Vatican theologian, Jean Galot, confirms the official doctrinal status of Marian co-redemption in light of Vatican II teaching: Without using the term "co-redemptrix," the Council clearly enunciated the doctrine: a cooperation of a unique kind, a maternal cooperation in the life and work of the Savior, which reaches its apex in the participation in the sacrifice of Calvary, and which is oriented towards the supernatural life of souls…. [Jean Galot, S.J., "Maria Corredentrice. Controversie e problemi dottrinali", Civilta Cattolica, 1994, III, 213-225]

And as articulated by Galot in the official Vatican newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano: "The Second Vatican Council, which avoided employing this debated title [Co-redemptrix], nevertheless affirmed with vigor the doctrine it implies. . . ." ["Maria Corredentrice", L'Osservatore Romano, September 15, 1995, p. 4]

Beyond its certain doctrinal presence in Vatican II, Marian coredemption, along with the explicit use of the title co-redemptrix, is a repeated papal teaching spanning the 19th to the 21St century, which again assures its authentic doctrinal status within the Church. Marian co-redemption is repeatedly taught in numerous papal encyclicals and general teachings, as reflected in the following representative citations of official papal teachings: [For a more comprehensive treatment, cf. Schug and Miravalle, "Mary Co­redemptrix in the Documents of the Papal Magisterium" in Mary Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate, Theological Foundations I, Queenship Pub. 1995; Calkins, "Pope John Paul's Teaching on Marian Co-redemption" in Mary Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate, Theological Foundations II, pp.113-148]

Leo XIII: "When Mary offered herself completely to God together with her Son in the temple, she was already sharing with Him the painful atonement on behalf of the human race. It is certain, therefore, that she suffered in the very depths of her soul with His most bitter sufferings and with His torments. Finally, it was before the eyes of Mary that the Divine sacrifice for which she had born and nurtured the victim, was to be finished.., we see that there stood by the Cross of Jesus His Mother, who in a miracle of charity, so that He might receive us as her sons, willingly offered Him up to divine justice, dying with Him in her heart, pierced with the sword of sorrow." [Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Jucunda Semper, 1884]

St. Pius X: "Owing to the union of suffering and purpose existing between Christ and Mary, she merited to become most worthily the Reparatrix of the lost world, and for this reason, the dispenser of all the favors which Jesus acquired for us by His death and His blood.., and because she was chosen by Christ to be His partner in the work of salvation, she merits for us de congruo as they say, that which Christ merits for us de condigno...." [Pope St. Pius X, Encyclical Ad diem ilium, 1904]

Benedict XV: "The fact that she was with her Son, crucified and dying, was in accord with the divine plan. To such extent did she surrender her maternal rights over her Son for man's salvation, and immolated Him - in so far as she could - in order to appease the justice of God, that we may rightly say she redeemed the human race together with Christ." [Pope Benedict XV, Apostolic Letter, Inter Sodalicia, 1918]

Pius XI: "O Mother of love and mercy who, when thy sweetest Son was consummating the Redemption of the human race on the altar of the cross, did stand next to Him, suffering with Him as a Co- redemptrix... preserve in us, we beseech thee, and increase day by day the precious fruit of His Redemption and the compassion of His Mother." [Pope Pius XI, Prayer of the Solemn Closing of the Redemption Jubilee, April 28, 1933]

Pius XII: "It was she who, always most intimately united with her Son, like a New Eve, offered Him on Golgotha to the Eternal Father, together with the sacrifice of her maternal rights and love, on behalf of all the children of Adam, shamed by the latter's shameful fall." [Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Mystici Corporis, 1943]

John Paul II: "In her, the many and intense sufferings were amassed in such an interconnected way that they were not only a proof of her unshakable faith, but also a contribution to the redemption of all.... It was on Calvary that Mary's suffering, beside the suffering of Jesus, reached an intensity which can hardly be imagined from a human point of view, but which were mysteriously and supernaturally fruitful for the Redemption of the world. Her ascent of Calvary and her standing at the foot of the cross together with the beloved disciple were a special sort of sharing in the redeeming death of her Son." [Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Letter, Salvifici Doloris, n.25.]

John Paul II: "Crucified spiritually with her crucified son (cf. Gal. 2:20), she contemplated with heroic love the death of her God, she 'lovingly consented to the immolation of this victim which she herself had brought forth' (Lumen Gentium, 58) .... In fact at Calvary she united herself with the sacrifice of her Son which led to the foundation of the Church.... In fact, Mary's role as Co­redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." [John Paul II, Papal Address at Guayaquil, Ecuador, Jan. 31, 1985]

We see then both from the criteria of ecumenical council teaching and from repeated papal teaching through encyclical and general instruction, the teaching of Marian co-redemption without question constitutes an authentic doctrine within the authoritative teachings of the Magisterium.

It is sometimes objected that the specific title Co-redemptrix only appears in papal teachings of lesser importance, and therefore does not represent Catholic doctrinal teachings. This would be to artificially separate the title Co-redemptrix, from the theological doctrine of co-redemption, with which the title is essentially linked and derived from. The title refers to the spiritual function which Mary performs in her unique cooperation in Redemption, and therefore to separate the title from the doctrine is to inappropriately and dangerously disconnect the title from its revealed and authoritatively taught doctrinal foundation. In sum, the doctrinal certainty of Marian co-redemption guarantees the doctrinal certainty of Mary Co-redemptrix.

Moreover, the repeated papal use of the Co-redemptrix title by the present pope on five separate occasions [Cf. For five citations and commentary, cf. Calkins, "Pope John Paul II's Teaching on Marian Co- redemption", Mary Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate, Theological Foundations II, Queenship, 1997] should in itself, for the faithful Catholic, immediately remove any question of the doctrinal legitimacy of the title Co-redemptrix (whether personally or prudentially preferable to the individual Catholic or not). On the other hand, the Catholic may conclude contrarily that Pope John Paul II has repeatedly used a Marian title which is in itself doctrinally erroneous, theologically unsound, or intrinsically without Christian doctrinal foundation; however, this appears foreign to the fullest sense of the religious assent of mind and will given to the manifest mind of the pope in non-infallible papal teachings. [Again, cf. Lumen Gentium, n. 25]

In sum, in light of both conciliar and repeated papal teachings, Marian co-redemption and its corresponding title, Mary Co­redemptrix, constitutes an official doctrinal teaching of the Church.

U can also go to these links:

1. The Title, "Coredemptrix" and the Papal Teachings of Pope John Paul II. http://www.voxpopuli.org/response_1.php

2. The Solemn Definition of Maternal Mediation and the Second Vatican Council.http://www.voxpopuli.org/response_2.php

3. The Solemn Definition of Maternal Mediation and Ecumenism.http://www.voxpopuli.org/response_3.php

Thanks and may God bless U all!

In Cordibus Jesu et Mariae

A Friend

-- A Friend (never@mind.tv), January 22, 2004.

No, Mary is not officially a Co-redemptrix and the title is very confusing. The Church teaches we have only one redeemer. Sorry to dissapoint the passionate.

In Christ, Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), January 22, 2004.

Subject: Movement in the Church?

There is no such movement within the Catholic Church. Where your friend heard this, I don't know, perhaps it be another false Protestant attack on the Catholic Church, who knows. Yes, we Catholics do have Mary in a very speacial place, but to put Virgin Mary above the Trinity, there is no such place to be found in the Catholic Church. Mary filled with the Holy Spirit said "All generations shall call me bessed" and thats what we Catholics do call her blest and follow all Bible teachings.

Palatto1

-- Lee S. (palatto1@aol.com), February 02, 2004.

Dear friend,

You might call Mary blest, but you certainly don't follow all Bible teaching regarding her as one of God's creatures.

The Word of God says that "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", and yet the Roman Catholic religion has given God's glory to Mary, a "creature" of God. Building schrines and praying to her, and all other kinds of nonsenses.

This is unscritpural and is based on the traditons of men, rather than the Holy Scritpures.

I really don't mind you saying what ever you want about Mary, that is out of control now, and I certainly can't stop it; but don't be deluded into thinking that the Scriptures support these wild stories!

Worship God in Spirit and in TRUTH.

Jim

-- Jim Teacher (jim@aol.com), February 20, 2004.

The Word of God says that "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", and yet the Roman Catholic religion has given God's glory to Mary, a "creature" of God. Building schrines [sic] and praying to her, and all other kinds of nonsenses.

Jim, your errors in the above sentences are the following ------

1. Taking the verse literally ("All have sinned ...") rather than the generalization that it is. You failed to stop and realized that NOT all have sinned. Examples: Jesus, kids under the age of reason, profoundly retarded adults, people in comas all their lives, etc..
Point: Since there are these exceptions, the Bible verse you quoted is a generalization. Therefore Mary could be (and is) and exception. She was/is sinless. Take it from the only Church that Jesus founded, the Catholic Church [not the "Roman Catholic religion"].

2. Catholicism does not "give God's glory to Mary." The Church refers to her as a creature. Catholics give honor to Mary (as we honor our biological mothers), but Catholics adore God alone.

3. "Building shrines" is not "nonsense." The shrine is a place in which a saint like Mary may be venerated/honored, but in which God alone is adored -- and every day.

4. "Praying to her" is not "nonsense," when the word "praying" is properly understood. The mere fact that YOUR "praying" is the only form of adoration you know how to give God does not mean that OUR praying is adoration. Instead, it is a form of speaking/requesting Mary's prayers to God, through Jesus, on our behalf. We simply ask Mary to make intercessory prayer for us, just as we would ask a family member or friend to do the same.

Please learn from what I have told you, Jim, and stop your unfounded attacks for the rest of your life. In fact ... become a Catholic!

-- (Honoring@BVM.com), February 20, 2004.

jim,

I'm going to clarify something said in the previous post which might confuse you...

There are NO shrines "to mary." You could never once show me a truly catholic shrine and prove to me that it is dedicated to Mary.

HOWEVER, there are shrines devoted TO GOD which focus on the workings of God and the devout love and glorification by mary to God. there is a subtle difference... you inexistant shrine is blasphemy, our shrine is honoring yet another great work that God has done for men.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), February 20, 2004.