Why is it that Catholics focused too much attention to Mary than Jesus Christ . Is praying through Mary not against the Bible ? Is this tradition or Scriptural ?

-- Anthony Adenuga (tonandliz@yahoo.com), February 03, 2004

Answers

Catholics are fully centered on Jesus Christ, the founder of our Church. When we ask Mary, or our family, or our church congregation, to pray for us, that prayer is directed to Jesus Christ. Christians have asked other Christians for prayer of intercession from the very beginning. By what authority has your modern tradition STOPPED doing what Christians have consistently done for 2,000 years?

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 03, 2004.

That an error had been going on for 2000 year , does not simply means it can not be corrected if such had blured the spiritual vision of many soul and diverted their attention . I adore & reverence Mary mother of God , just like other saints whom God had used to perfect His redemption plan for mankind.She is just another vessel in the hand of the almighty [like others]. God is not stagnant He moves . Jesus said , I am the way , the truth and life......... also

-- Anthony Adenuga ((tonandliz@yahoo.com)), February 03, 2004.

The teaching and practice of the early Church is the first measure of what is true and correct for Christians. It is absurd to say that the Apostles and every one of the Church Fathers had it wrong, until a 16'th century manmade tradition finally got it right. Your tradition opposes the traditions and teachings of genuine Christianity. Therefore your tradition, by definition, is wrong. Which is hardly surprising, considering that your tradition is so incapable of defining truth that it has fragmented into thousands of conflicting manmade denominational churches in a few hundred years, while the One True Church founded by Jesus Christ for all men remains pure, strong, and undivided after 2,000 years.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 03, 2004.

Anthony you write:

"I adore & reverence Mary mother of God , just like other saints"

Maybe your own words give us a clue as to your misunderstanding about Catholic doctrine. No thinking Catholic can ever say that he ADORES Mary or the Saints. For us Catholics ADORATION is reserved only to God and Christ (as He is at the same time God and Man). As far as the Blessed Mother and the Saints we HONOR AND REVERE them, but we never ADORE them.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), February 03, 2004.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that we Catholics don't pray to God THROUGH Mary. When we address Mary or the Saints we are asking them that they in heaven unite their voices to ours in giving God ADORATION, THANKSGIVING, and also in the last place ASKING for God's favor in our daily lives or in a special need. The Catholic Liturgy gives us the answer: all liturgical prayers in the Latin Liturgy end with PER DOMINUM NOSTRUM JESUM CHRISTUM, qui tecum vivit et regnat in unitate Spiritus Sancti....It is THROUGH JESUS CHRIST tht we come to the Father. Put in another way: we pray to the Father THROUGH the Son, moved by the Holy Spirit in company of Mary and the Saints.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), February 03, 2004.

You dont have to be aggressive with your reply to me , it worries me.I am only trying to get info. as this issue is very vital that it be answered . I am not prejudiced , niether sucpicious about the catholic church .I was a very commited Roman Catholic. Baptised,First Holy Comunium ,Confirmed and married in the Catholic Church. But as I desired to know more of God ,I started reading the Bible and discovering many things that made me question some things. I only require a matured ,knowledgeable person who probably can explain down to earth and scripturally to me reasons behind these things.

-- Anthony Adenuga (tonandliz@yahoo.com), February 03, 2004.

No one is being agressive with you. It is very well that you actually took the time to come here and present your question to us, instead of immediately falling into the 'fundementalsit trap' and indoctrination. Belive me, we had had so many 'Bible Christains' who go off running after man-made hurches and are indoctrinated to come to forums and try 'teaching' us a new faith.

Your question an be best answered by reading this link and visting some of these sites:

A Catholic Response

Biblical Evidence for Catholicism

For Protestants looking into the Catholic Faith

God Bless You

-- Andrew (andyhbk96@hotmail.com), February 03, 2004.

" But as I desired to know more of God ,I started reading the Bible and discovering many things that made me question some things."

How terribly sad that your desire to learn more of God, resulting from reading a book compiled by the Catholic Church, resulted in your leaving the one place on earth where the fullness of God's revealed truth can be found. If you wanted to know more of God, all you had to do was to come to the pillar and foundation of truth, His Church, and ask. Instead you have abandoned the fullness of truth in the name of seeking truth. Reading God's Word caused you to "question things". You could have had the answers. The real answers. Now the answers you get will just depend on which denomination you happen to join. Very sad.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 03, 2004.

It is only by questioning the faith that we can grow in it.

this statement is an oxymoron. the very nature of faith is that there is mystery behind it. you can question all you like, but miracles and mysteries will ALWAYS remain. We must do as God commands, not parse verses to chop out parts of the bible.

Furthermore, I dont think its a problem of people not understanding the church or the message being unclear. I think its an indicator that there are alot of people who call themselves catholic and, unlike anthony, never make the time to learn about their purported "faith."

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), February 05, 2004.

Whose the clergyman????!!! Paul????!!!

-- Andrew (andyhbk96@hotmail.com), February 05, 2004.

Paul M is a Deacon Andrew and just about the smartest person you’re ever likely to meet. Why he’s chosen to become a resident at this forum is anyone’s guess but were all grateful, even argumentative pains in the ass like myself and Im sure Scott..

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), February 05, 2004.

There is both Tradition and Scripture involved as both are the sources of divine revelation. Here are a few things to ponder that may help you understand why Mary is venerated over all the saints and angels:

1. Her will was so in tune with God's that He chose her to be the Holy of holies of the New Covenant. 2. God preserved her from orignal and actual sin and when her life ended she was assumed body and soul into heaven. 3. She, just as our Lord, was prophesied in the Old Testament. 4. She is referred to in Scripture as "Full of Grace" (not as an adjective but as a vocative), and that she is blessed among women. 5. She said herself in the Magnificat, "And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour, because he has regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed." 6. And further "a certain woman from the crowd, lifting up her voice, said to him [Jesus], 'Blessed is the womb that bore thee and the breasts that nursed thee.'" And our Lord said, "Rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it." Thus she is not blessed because she nursed Him, but because she kept His word. "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word." 7. At the marriage in Cana she incited our Lord's first miracle when she said, "Do whatever he tells you." Thus even to this day she incites the Lord on our behalf. 8. Our Lady was committed to St. John at Calvary with the words, "Behold thy mother." 9. Our Lord has shown His mother's special place in the Church by her numerous apparitions to the faithful. Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalupe being the most famous (and apporved). Can we not go on this day to the grotto where the healing spring has healed many, or to Mexico where the tilma of St. Juan Diego still is displayed and completely unexplainable by modern science?

These are only a few things about our Lady. The continual Church traditional as well has shown her veneration. We never slight our Lord by praying to Mary, because our Lord has willed that she have a special place in our lives.

Our Lady, Ark of the Covenant. Pray for us.

-- Sean Whittle (s22w22@yahoo.com), February 06, 2004.

Sean knows it.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), February 06, 2004.

I understand where You anthony are coming from, Including myself I know of at least 5 other people who were just strated reading th bible for themselves, not being told to do so by some "protestant", but on there own will. And they all had the same thing happen, they all questioned the beliefs of the catholic church. I don't see what's wrong with questioning it, as long as they are seeking truth. I don't know why people have problems when others read the bible and ask questions, to me it would seem that the beliefs that they have is over the beleifs of the God's Word. Keep on Seeking truth and you will find it

-- dave (thisisnotmyadress@whoever.com), February 06, 2004.

dave,

dont be silly, you equate "questioning truth" with "seeking truth" when no such connection can be made. let me give you an example:

This states most basically "I have a PERSONAL opinion that praying to mary and attention towards the mother of God are wrong. why is it that catholics do something I think is wrong?"

Seeking truth, however would be like this: why do catholics pay attention to and respect mary? are there any reasons this contradicts the bible? this makes no presuppositions to response. it is open to truth. it is open to response and understanding. to seek truth is to not make personal biased decisions against that truth.

questioning truth is stupid. seeking it is worthy, but both you and anthony apparently need to learn the distinct difference between the two.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), February 06, 2004.

okay, this is bugging me, above, where i put my quote, i cut something from anthony in his original question. I come back to check on the post, and the quote I made was deleted. WHY? is there a software error that cropped this out? anyway, the second paragraph, the one that says "this basically says..." was supposed to be preceeded by the original question by anthony.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), February 06, 2004.

paul h, rather than disrupt any given thread with questions for the moderators, please email them for answers. The post deleted contained discourteous comments.

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), February 06, 2004.

Anthony- Scott Hahn, Catholic answers, and Jimmy Akin are just a few resources w/ websites that can help. If you don't already know, Scott and Jimmy are both formerly anti-Catholic converts to the faith. They are awesome and a blessing to Catholics, and can answer questions like yours because they were in the same boat.

-- Mark Advent (adventm5477@earthlink.net), February 07, 2004.

Dear Moderator:
Is there a way to put this ''contributor'' in limbo? All he'll be doing for days is smelling up the forum; and our trustworthy posters will be tempted to dispute with him for nothing. He's been here before with his defamation of the Church, and is impossible to switch off. Can him, won't ya?

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 08, 2004.

Eugene, finally we agree on something. :) Even my patience has been taxed. Jay's insulting, unsubstantiated rhetoric on all threads dated today will be deleted.

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), February 08, 2004.

I Tim. 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

-- Hubert Parker (doc8452@yahoo.com), March 14, 2004.

Yes, "one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" but potentially countless mediators/intercessors between any of us men and the man Christ Jesus. That's why St. Paul told St. Timothy (exactly in the four previous verses to 1 Tim 2:5), "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

-- (Helping@Hubert.Home), March 15, 2004.

I am a non-catholic, and recently after seeing Mel Gibson's film, I had a discussion with another non-catholic friend of mine. I said that catholics does not HAVE pray through Mary to Jesus, they can pray directly to Jesus if they so prefer.

She said that what I say is untrue, and that the catholics are not allowed to pray to Jesus, and have to pray through Mary or another saint.

Please respond to the email address because I probably won't find this board again. Thanks so much.

I have attented several catholic masses but I decided against the faith on the basis of how they view sex and condoms etc.

-Reenen

-- Reenen Laurie (rlaurie@sce.co.za), March 29, 2004.

Reenen, you are quite correct and your friend is quite in error. A copy of this comment is being sent to you concurrently in private email as requested.

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), March 29, 2004.

Reenen, you wrote, “I have attented several catholic masses but I decided against the faith on the basis of how they view sex and condoms etc.” I invite you to return to this forum and explain what it is about the Catholic teaching on sex or condoms that you feel you cannot live with. Usually, when a full examination is undertaken, Catholic teaching dispels many misconceptions and misunderstandings (like having to pray through Mary to Jesus)and reveals a beautiful truth. :-)

A copy of this post has been sent to you in private email.

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), March 29, 2004.