Many times in the Bible I see what appears to be a group of people being addressed as Judah, Israel, or Jerusalem. Are these interchangable when not speaking of a people and not a place? If not, what's the difference?

-- Mark Advent (adventm5477@earthlink.net), February 09, 2004

Answers

Israel speaks of hte peopel decended form Issac. Juda spacifically those of the lower Kingdom tribes. Bengamin and Bengamin. Jerusalem spoke of ither the inhabitants of Jerusalem, or the preists,contengent on the context.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 09, 2004.

Oops, my bad.

My question should have read: Many times in the Bible I see what appears to be a group of people being addressed as Judah, Israel, or Jerusalem. Are these interchangable when speaking of a people and not a place? If not, what's the difference?

-- Mark Advent (adventm5477@earthlink.net), February 09, 2004.

Hi Mark,

Are you familiar with the 12 tribes of Israel? They are basically composed of the 12 sons of Jacob (Abraham's grandson) as the ancestral fathers of that tribes. These were united until after the reign of Solomon, when the kingdom split. I believe it was split between Solomon's 2 sons, who both wanted power.

One king ruled the tribes Judah and Benjamin together, and these together were called "Judah". Jerusalem was located in Judah, I think near the border of Benjamin. The other king was ruler of the northern kingdom, the ones that broke off from Judah's rule, and these together are called "Israel". These people scattered around the world and intermarried with Gentiles. One group formed from this was the Samaritans, who were part Israeli and part Gentile, and who accepted only the Pentatuech (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) as their Bible, rejecting the other OT books. God promised that one day they would all be united again with the Messiah. That's why the disciples wanted to know if Jesus was going to restore the kingdom:

Acts 1 (KJV) 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The Israelites were God's chosen people, and He promised that He would bring them all together again to be unified. Since they were scattered all over the nations and intermarried (James 1:1 (KJV) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings.), the only way that God could keep this promise would be if He allowed the Gentiles to be saved too.

Also note that God allowed the tribes of Judah and Benjamin to be preserved and the others scattered, because God promised that the Messiah would come through the line of Judah. Those two tribes alone (and possibly the Levites due to their role as priests) maintained their geneological information to prove that Jesus came from the tribe of Judah to fulfill God's promise!

The beauty of this is for Catholicism that God promised that they would all be unified again, and this would be through the Messiah. Well of course, we believe that Messiah is Jesus. But how could all of Israel be unified again under the rule of 25,000+ Protestant denominations? It is clear that this unity would call for one church, and this unity is only found in the Catholic Church.

I must credit Catholic theologian Scott Hahn, because I learned almost all of this from his sermon series _All Israel Will Be Saved: A Bible Study on Romans 9-11_. It is an excellent explanation of Israel's history. It also provides an alternative way to interpret the Bible verses that Calvinists/Reformed churches use as their main source text (Rom. 9 especially).

A final note. When you hear of people today as "Jews" this is rooted in the name "Judah" from that tribe, and may also include people from the tribe of Benjamin, but I'm not sure. I am still in the middle of listening to the tape series, but if you want to learn more, it is highly recommended!

God bless,

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), February 09, 2004.

Emily- Thanks so much. I also have a deep admiration for Scott Hahn. By the way, I hear the protestant denomination count is up to 32000!

-- Mark Advent (adventm5477@earthlink.net), February 09, 2004.

Mark said: By the way, I hear the protestant denomination count is up to 32000!

Yikes! Lord, help us! Although, I think those numbers are a bit inflated. They likely include all of the individual "independent" churches as each comprising their own denomination. Since these are numerous, I think if that number was removed, it would be much lower. I think it would be a more accurate portrayal of the number of *denominations* if all of these miscellaneous "independent" ones counted as one total.

God bless,

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), February 09, 2004.

Emily- My bad there too for improper terminology. The number comes from "Catholic Answers" radio program.

-- Mark Advent (adventm5477@earthlink.net), February 09, 2004.

It's true that the 32,000 number includes "denominations and independent churches". However, it is also reasonable to identify "independent churches" as denominations. Their claim to be "independent" or "non-denominational" simply means they don't align themselves with any pre-existing denomination. But that doesn't mean they are not in fact denominations. Each of them defines what is and is not doctrinally acceptable for their church (usually based on the personal beliefs and personal biblical interpretations of the pastor/preacher/minister). Therefore, in defining the set of doctrinal beliefs that defines their church, they are in fact new and distinct denominations, even if they only have a dozen members.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 10, 2004.

Paul said: it is also reasonable to identify "independent churches" as denominations. and in defining the set of doctrinal beliefs that defines their church, they are in fact new and distinct denominations, even if they only have a dozen members.

Paul, you are right in the technical sense of the term, and I agree in that sense. However, I think to call them "denominations" in order to inflate the number presents a deceptive figure. Perhaps I should have been more clear and specific in my proposal. They could say that there are 32,000 separate entities, X number of which are independent churches and Y number of which are groups of churches forming a denomination.

God bless,

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), February 10, 2004.

Just a quote from Karl Keating's e-letter.

Dear Friend of Catholic Answers:

I have refrained, in public talks and in print, from claiming that there are X number of Protestant denominations. Other Catholic apologists have bandied about five-digit figures, but I never have been able to track down the source for their numbers. It has been sufficient to say that there are "countless" divisions within Protestantism and that many of those divisions resulted in the establishment of new churches.

But now I find that someone indeed has counted the countless denominations. The "World Christian Encyclopedia" reportedly states that there are 33,830 Christian denominations in the world. Subtract the Catholic Church and the Eastern churches, and you are left with about 33,800 other churches, those descended from the Protestant Reformation.

No doubt one could quibble about how the compilers of the encyclopedia decided what was to be thought of as a distinct denomination and what was not. Even if one dismissed nine-tenths of the listed groups, saying that most of them should be regarded as internal variants (somewhat along the lines of the Benedictines, Franciscans, and Jesuits not being separate churches but separate "emphases" within the single Catholic Church), that still would leave 3,380 separate--and separated--Protestant denominations.

(Me again) Even at 3380 that is 3379 too many.

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), February 10, 2004.

Dano said: Even at 3380 that is 3379 too many

You are right, Dan. It's very sad. At least God has preserved His Church despite the countless divisions outside. Thanks for posting the letter - that was interesting to read.

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), February 10, 2004.