Howard Stern was removed from the airwaves for being offensive, but a satire about Jesus is 'gentle' and it is okay?

Please???? What is going on here?

I never once focused on who killed Jesus during the whole movie. I was totally immersed in the 'suffering' of Jesus.

I am sick to death of the critics' negative comments about Mel Gibson and his movie, The Passion. I saw the movie today. Was it violent? Yes. Was it bloody? Yes. Was it anti-Semetic? No. It is the way it was 2000 years ago. There were two groups of people then. The Romans and the Jews. It happened. This movie is not a figment of Mel's imagination. It happened. Jesus was crucified. Crucifixions were bloody, nasty and violent. They weren't pretty.

During the Lenten season, Christians pray the Stations of the Cross. The Stations of the Cross represent all the steps of the Crucifixion of Christ. During the 40 days of Lent that is what Christians focus on - the Crucifixion. We do not focus on other aspects of Jesus' life at that time. We walk the walk and carry the Cross with Jesus and that is what Mel focused on in this movie.

The negative press from the media and Hollywood is unjust and disgusting. The movie is not disgusting, at least not disgusting in the way the critics say it is. The crucifixion was disgusting, the message is powerful. I only wish that everyone would listen to the message of this beautiful man, Jesus - the world would be a better place. For those who believe in Jesus, they must believe in Satan too. If you don't think He is working overtime in our world, just take a look around you.

I used to be so proud to say I was an American. I was so proud to say that I lived in this country, America. I am not any more. I am not proud to live in a country that wants to take any thing good and turn it into something ugly. I do not want to live in a country that mocks Jesus. I'd like to see Hollywood do this to Buddha.....or Mohammed...they would never get away with it.

It is a masterpiece. I cannot get it out of my mind. I was so moved by it. The acting is superb, magnificent. The movie should be an academy award winner, but we know it won't be because it is about Jesus and it is considered anti-Semetic. I didn't see any hint of that at all.

Judas betrayed Jesus for silver. It happened and that is the way it was. Jesus is Jewish. His mother Mary is Jewish. Joseph, the step-father of Jesus, is Jewish...I don't know anyone who blames the Jews for killing Jesus. We all killed him..at least, that is what we Christians believe. Jesus died for ur sins.

I did not enter that movie theater hating Jews, nor did I leave hating Jews. It is a disgrace what Hollywood is doing to Mel Gibson. The critics are not being honest here. They do not want to lose the invites to the big parties, dinners, previews, connections in Hollywood..that is what it is about.

Since when do children have to pay for the sins of their fathers? Mel should not have to pay the price for something his father may have said or believed.

Perhaps Christians should rewrite the New Testatment to please the Jewish people, to please Hollywood...it happened. We cannot change the past..God can't even do that. But, God can forgive and he already has forgiven those who killed them. Jesus said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." He said it...that is not a figment of Mel's imagination. It is God's word.

All this focus on the 'violence' is a crock. Remember Psycho? Talk about violence? And, how about the horse's bloody head in The Godfather?? Academy Award Winner..stuff a piece of cotton in Marlon Brando's mouth and he talks funny is worth an academy award..despite the fact that it shows Italian people in a bad light...the world thinks all Italian people talk funny, are in the Mafia - oh, but that is okay with Hollywood.

It is okay for Tony Soprano to cut off a man's head, place it in a bowling bag, (not violent??), butcher a pregnant woman to death, use the F word in every sentence, sell drugs, lie, cheat and commit adultrey...puts the Itlian people in a great light...but, that is okay.

MAYBE Italians should start protesting Mafia movies because it puts all Italians in a bad lilght. MAYBE Germans should start protesting movies about the Holocaust because it happened, it was brutal, violent, the worst crime of humanity, and it is disgusting and painful to watch, and it puts all German people in a bad light. MAYBE white people should protest movies about slavery because it is true, it happened and it is brutally painful to watch and puts "all" white people in a bad light. History cannot be rewritten. History cannot be changed. BUT, Hollywood, can pick and choose what historical documents they want to write about and can crucify the producer if they don't like the truth.

An artist places dong on a holy picture of Mary, the Mother of God, (who is a Jew) and that is okay...it is called 'artistic expression.'

Mel is being crucified without just cause and it is sickening to listen to. I admire this brilliant, talented man for having the guts to go ahead with this movie, knowing the price he would have to pay. If he loses his career in Hollywood he didn't lose much.

BUT, have a brilliant actor make a documentary based on truth, based on something that really happened and it is too violent. Do the critics, the media, and Hollywood think the American people are stupid???? Enough already. Say it like it is..there are two reasons they don't like the movie - jealousy because it is going to be one of the biggest blockbusters in the movie industry..and because it puts the Jewish people (according to the Jewish people) in a bad light. And not one but Mel and his staff will reap any of the monetary rewards!

No one blames the Jews for the death of Jesus...the Romans played their part in it too...as a Christian, I can tell you from my heart and soul - Jesus died for all of humanity..for all of our sins.

Maybe the media, the critics and Hollywood do not want to give Mel Gibson the credit that is due him and maybe Mel will never make another movie in Hollywood again..but you know what? He's got the most important and most powerful person in the entire world on his side and His name is Jesus. Jesus said, "If they hate me, they will hate you too." Mel will never walk alone.

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), February 27, 2004

Answers

Sorry, forgot to mention that the above was in response to something so horrible on a news show tonight. They were showing a so- called "gentle" satire of The Passion - laughing and makng a mockery of Jesus and the Apostles. They showed a marketing company for movies making 'light' of the Passion. I am really getting tired of this now. It is like Jesus is being crucified all over again and they are crucifying Mel Gibson right along with Him.

So be it..what is done is done. I also made a mistake, didn't I? Mary 'is' a Jew...Is Jesus still a Jew? Did Jesus stop being a Jew after He was crucified?

MaryLu

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), February 27, 2004.

Blessed be God, a million, million, million times Glenn K.

-- - (.@....), February 27, 2004.

After watching the movie last night with my wife and kids this is what I have to say , Marilu:

Good: My wife and I cried when Mary runs to help her son who has fallen. We lost our first baby. We understood. My daughter cried when she saw him being tortured and taken uo. My son could care less. He is used to the video violence already. My other daughter cared about the birds.

I liked the use of Aramaic and Latin. I wanted more Hebrew and Greek action.

I will probably wait to make my own version.

My critical points: From a historical and archeological point of view: a)Jesus is not Yeshua in Aramaic. Sounds more like Isho. b) Mel Gibson ommited the humiliation of by the guards of the High priest c)Omitted Herod's humiliation d) The made the other 2 crucified hanged to T crosses. Jesus on + cross. e) Jesus talking to Pilate and Pilate talking to Jesus in each others languages without a translator f) High Priest Caiaphas could not be at the house of Pilate that day to demand Jesus crucifixion. g)The devil in many scenes. h)Jesus stepping on the devil transformed as a snake i)What happened to Veronica? j) No proof of an earthquake breaking the holy temple through the middle. k) Did Jesus carried the cross all the way as John says, or no as Mark says? l)Whatever happened to Greek? Soldiers used it. They were mercenaries in the East Roman Emprire. Latin was uesd in the West m) What happened to Judas? n) Did Jesus really identified Peter while being with the high priest? o) Was Jesus really in the tomb at the end? ....

The Christian Yawist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonzalez@srla.org), February 28, 2004.

Elpidio,
Your T verses + cross problem may be an easy one to answer. We know that the Romans during that period used both. Since the Bible talks of a sign posted above Jesus' head, it is a good assumption he was placed upon a + type cross. However other types could have been used for other people at the same time. I would think they would be easier to construct.

I have a feeling Mel thought 3 (including Hebrew) almost extinct languages was enough for the actors and audience. But I agree Greek would certainly have been spoken.

I understand a lot of the 'high priest' scenes were removed because of the controversy over the movie and the political climate in Hollywood and New York.

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), February 28, 2004.

My Pal Elpidio would never consider another great mystery; which wouldn't be lost on Gibson;

Christ then AND now definitely understands any words in Latin, Greek or Yiddish; since He is Almighty God. He would have had no trouble communicating with Pilate. For all we know, Pilate even spoke Jesus' own language.

We have proof in the gospel texts that Peter spoke with a Galilean accent. He could have been speaking Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic. Not likely Latin, in the High Priest's courtyard.

I suspect if Pilate spoke Latin to Jesus, there was indeed an interpreter with the two. Somebody had to relate their exchange to the evangelists, anyway. It had to be either a slave or Pilate's own wife. Tradition has it she converted in those very days to the Christian faith. Gibson has no artistic need to worry about interpreters. The dialogue is what's important.

The name Jesus was pronounced in a number of ways among ancient Isralite tribes. The hero of Exodus, Joshua, is really one version of Christ's name. Jesus is the Latin word; and Yeshuah is today's modern Jewish version. It cannot matter, for purposes of this partcular movie dialogue.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 28, 2004.

What word could one possibly use to describe the impact of this movie? There is NONE. I cannot think of one single word to describe this masterpiece. It is a work of art that I hope will impact me for the rest of my life. My body shook and trembled throughout the entire event. My 25 year old son broke out in a sweat and wept from beginning to end.

Awesome! The movie gives one a new "perspective" on life.

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 28, 2004.

Gail, I reacted the same way. My whole body was trembling when I walked out of the movie house. I did not want to talk to anyone.

I work with the public and, of course, everyone is talking about the movie. Several people have told me that they are returning to church after a long absence, several have told me that they opened their bibles for the first time in a long time, or 'for the very first time.'

I do hope this is not a temporary reaction to the film, but just the beginning of a steadfast journey for these people.

Elpidio, Mel did resort to some artistic 'drama' here and there and there were some things that were a little 'off' track, but I did not focus on that - for example, I never read anything about Jesus falling off of a bridge...but, that's okay. The suffering was emphasized and 'felt' by all who witnessed it and I think that is what is important.

Also, I would like to say that I may have been somewhat harsh in my reaction to the 'reactors' of this film. I may have been insensitive to the anxiety of the Jewish people concerning their fear of a backlash towards them. I, not being Jewish, never experienced the pain of the holocaust, did not experience their suffering, their losses.

I guess I never will understand their sensitivity to the issue because I did not walk in their shows, did not suffer the way they have. Perhaps their concerns are real. May God deliver them from their fears.

Gospels when I got home from the movie and, it says in Luke 24:45 "It was now about noon and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon because of an eclipse of the sun. Then the veil of the temple was torn down the middle." Is that what you are asking about?

In Mark 16:38, it says "The veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from the top to bottom."

Also, can anyone tell me what the scene is about when Satan is holding a baby? What does that mean? I have never seen that before.

I am not an expert on Scripture, someone else will have to answer that..but just wanted to let you know that the Gospels do refer to the temple spliting down the middle - whether or not that really happened or those verses mean something else I do not know.

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), February 28, 2004.

Just a lowly protestant here and all I want to say is that that movie was awesome and truly life changing. My family and I cried and cried through the whole thing. I do have a question In the Bible does Judas hang himself? God Bless You, John

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), February 29, 2004.

John,
In the New American Bible, in Matt 27:5 the gospel says:
Flinging the money into the temple, he departed and went off and hanged himself.

In the footnotes you will find:
For another tradition about the death of Judas, cf Acts 1:18-19. The two traditions agree only in the purchase of a field with the money paid to Judas for his betrayal of Jesus and the name given to the field, the Field of Blood. In Acts Judas himself buys the field and its name comes from his own blood shed in his fatal accident on it. The potter's field: this designation of the field is based on the fulfillment citation in Matthew 27:10.

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson-nospam45@hotmail.com), February 29, 2004.

Thanks Bill, I know that was a sort of dumb question and I read my Bible but I did not know that was the case until now. I guess it is true you learn someething new everyday. GOD BLESS, John

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), February 29, 2004.

John,
My understanding of this group is that it was setup specifically to answer questions like yours. You are most welcome and keep the questions coming :)

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), February 29, 2004.

We saw the movie Saturday night. Tremendous effect, from a cinematic POV. Theology was hinted at, but hardly as well as a Bible background offers. Great performances.

Ann Catherine Emmerich saw Jesus crossing over the Torrent of Cedron, a rapids with a very long bridge over it. Jesus was being treated with beastly severity and dragged along; they virtually tossed him off the bridge. Sister Emmerich commented it was a miracle He wasn't killed right there. He was finally dragged through the Cedron all the way back and had to walk the length of the bridge all over.

If I'm correct, the ''baby'' at the devil's breast represented this evil mob, who were ravished at the sight of Christ's humiliation and sorrow. It was a superficial effect to me. I really missed seeing real angels in the film's development; because we know from the gospels they ministered to Our Lord, starting at Gethsemani. Otherwise, being human, He could have died of grief. It was not in God's plan for Him to escape His cross, though. Whoever reads the Dolorous Passion of Our Lord will experience something truly divine; when reading the way thousands of angelic spirits descended on the Via Crucis to recover from the dirt each fragment of Jesus' holy body and precious blood; all that His bloody trail up to Calvary had shed on the way. This happened in Emmerich's vision, the night following Christ's entombment. His dead corpse was restored by having all this matter set miraculously back where it came from! It is a revelation seen nowhere else except in this vision. It's too bad Gibson had no way of illustrating it in the screenplay. Nothing can appear perfect when divine perfection is related to mortals. But Mel Gibson did a wonderful job as it stands, IMO.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 29, 2004.

Wasn't the ugly baby with teeth which the Satan figure was holding sort of mocking prefigurement/threat of the Antichrist?

This was interesting imho: Maia Morgenstern is the name of the actor who played Mary, and her last name means Morning Star.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), February 29, 2004.

The baby could also represent Satan mocking Jesus...saying, see how I take care of my own? Anyway, it was an inspired artistic element. There is a lot to this movie.

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), February 29, 2004.

Just my opinion here but I thought the baby had the face of that High Priest and was symbolic of the Devil having hold on him. I may be wrong but that is what it looked like to me.

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), February 29, 2004.

Was Mel's "Passion" (besides based on the New Testament gospels) also based on a nun's vision of the last 24 hours of Jesus's life? I heard that and that is where all the demons and Satan come into the picture. I heard there was actually countless demons around Jesus when he was crucified from what the nun claimed to have seen?

BTW, doesn't say in the Bible that the veil split? So that's way the ground split?

-- William (Ducin25@aol.com), March 06, 2004.

PRAISE THE LORD MaryLu! Nice Post! I saw the movie and it's AWESOME! I praise the LORD for it. Nearly the entire theater was packed and after the Resurection in the movie nearly EVERYONE applaued in GRADDITUDE, NOT HATRED. I am so happy a movie like that is out in the movies. I am hoping it will put sparks on people and bring them back to the church and strengthen people's faith even more.

Oh ya, is it true the man playing Jesus was struck by lightning twice within a few seconds and a pink light surrounded him then vanished leaving him completly unharmed? And is it true During the making of the movie when the man playing Jesus was on the cross a strange wind blew almost knocking him over the edge of the cliff as the staff down below whatched helplessly but then stopped and the cross straightend?

If so... you know who was trying to stop this movie from being made don't you? Praise the Lord he failed!

-- Jason (Enchanted fire5@aol.com), March 06, 2004.

I haven't posted here in the forum for some time now....been really busy with kids and all.

What brings me back? The Passion, saw it last night. Didn't sleep at all through the night. My husband and I were speechless....we could not even discuss the movie after seeing it.

Now that I had a day to think about all the fuss.....if the movie is anti-Semetic, then it is anti-Roman as well. For the critics who put all the focus into anti-Semitcs......well, they missed the whole point of the movie, which is a shame really.

Mary Lu is right on....The Passion is a MASTERPIECE! Like Mary Lu, I did not walk in a hater of Jews, nor did I leave feeling that way. I left The Passion with so many mixed emotions. All I could do was cry. I cried for my sins, and I cried for the sacrifice that Jesus made for us.

No other movie this year or in my mind ever, will top this.

I am so overwhelmed by the movie that I still cannot express how it made me feel.

BRAVO Mel Gibson, BRAVO!!!

In Christ,

-- Kathy (sorry@nomail.com), March 06, 2004.

Congradulations and may God Bless You MaryLu. May HE continue to give you the insight to stand up for HIM who is the WAY TRUTH and the LIFE. You said all in this letter what I wanted to shout out to the people who appear to think of themselves so high in intelligence and ego to condem this wonderful piece of art that has the message of greatest importance. Mel Gibson you are a true soldier of Our Lord and I glory to God for choosing to do this great work.

-- Ramanie Weerasinghe (lilanw@yahoo.com), March 06, 2004.

There is no man more blind than he who wishes not to see at all!!!! Just as in the time before Jesus was born, people were awaiting someone who would fill them with hope and grant them salvation... today, as we seem to fall apart as a human race and destroy our planet along with us litle-by-little, along comes a man (not a converted christian), but an instrument of God, and uses what talents He has given us to remind us that we are not alone, and that only one person in all of human history has loved us so much that he spilled His innocent blood to save us from eternal damnation. If any religious group had done this movie, the credit would have been theirs and not truly God's. But, our lord chose Mr.Gibson, and took all the glory for Himself! If He has blessed Mr.Gibson financially, and hopfully spiritually for helping spred the godspell...Amen!

As for the baby in satan's hands, I guess that it represents the following: Satan WAs present at the scene of the cross, making others mock, and ridicule Jesus, but he also did the same. He holds the child in front of Jesus so as to tell Him that unlike God, he is a caring father for his offspring(antichrist), and that once He is out of the picture, this offspring will be the true prince of all creation. Jesus knows that He has not been forsaken by His Father in Heaven... so he begins to recite one of the Psalms, which He does not finish because he is gasping for air due to the position of His body on the cross. I'm glad that i'm not the only one who considers this film a work of art. I only hope that when the DVD finally comes out it will be the director's cut with the deleted scenes. Bless U all!!!! Ed in PR

-- Edwin Ortiz (guinn_pr@hotmail.com), April 15, 2004.

Eugene, I am surprised you believe fully in Sister Emmerich's visions oof Jesus sufferings and crucifixion.

Some of the "Facts" she gives cannot be verified: Pilate's wife? Claudia Procles Seraphia=Veronica(vera Icon true icon) wife of sirach, from the Sanhedrin, descendant of chaste Susanah,the one mentioned in Daniel? Simon of Cyrene a Pagan? Jesus fell 7 times? Jesus blood collected?

..... and the list goes on...

Not even in my widest dream have I ever written anything like this before.

As to what you mentioned, Eugene, I couldn't find Cedron.

CHAPTER XXXI

The First Fall of Jesus

THE street of which we have just spoken, after turning a little to the left, became rather steep, as also wider, a subterranean aqueduct proceeding from Mount Sion passed under it, and in its vicinity was a hollow which was often filled with water and mud after rain, and a large stone was placed in its centre to enable persons to pass over more easily. When Jesus reached this spot, his strength was perfectly exhausted; he was quite unable to move; and as the archers dragged and pushed him without showing the slightest compassion, he fell quite down against this stone, and the cross fell by his side. Taken from Ch. 31 of http://www.emmerich1.com/DOLOROUS_PASSION_OF_OUR_LORD_JESUS_CHRIST.htm ">Catherine Emmerich's Passion Of Christ

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (Egonval@yahoo.com), April 15, 2004.

Eugene , her life spanned about 50 years 1774-1824, yet, I could not find any evidence of her going to what is now Israel.

In the year 1823, on Holy Thursday and Good Friday, which came on the 27th and 28th of March, she had visions of the Passion, during which blood flowed from all her wounds, causing her intense pain. Amid these awful sufferings, although ravished in spirit, she was obliged to speak and give answers concerning all her little household affairs, as if she had been perfectly strong and well, and she never let fall a complaint, although nearly dying.

Taken from Catherine Emmerich Biography

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), April 15, 2004.

I love this forum because I learn so much from all of you. I never heard about that nun's story. I will have to look into that.

Also, I never read Dolorous Passion of Our Lord. I will look into that as well.

Just realized in reading my old post that I made a typo...should say 'shoes' not shows..guess the movie was on my mind...don't know, but I'm sure you all knew what I meant. Sometimes I type faster than my mind thinks..

What great posts!!!! I enjoyed reading each and everyone!

I was watching a talk show yesterday and they were discussing whether or not Mel Gibson will get an academy award for The Passion. Most were in agreement that he won't even be considered. I wished that I could have called the show to tell them that Mel has already received his award from God and that is enough. God must be so pleased that Mel made such a movie, despite the horrible criticism he had to take, despsite the horrid treatment he received from Hollywood, and perhaps even lost some so-called friends.

God also blessed Mel's efforts by the financial rewards he received and I think Mel will continue to make movies for God.

I have read so many stories of people who have gone back to church for the first time in years, "criminals" who have gone to confession to confess their crimes, thousands of people have returned to church after a long absence. It is quite amazing to see how this movie has affected people. I also read that the movie broke all records for one day in Italy!

When God speaks to our hearts and wants us to use our gifts to glorify Him, we just never know the lives we can touch.

Thank you all for sharing. Those Hollywood producers must be sorry now...thinking of all those millions they could have made. I am so glad I never listen to the critics and make my own decisions when it comes to movies!!

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), April 15, 2004.

I don't have any problems with the movie as a movie, Marilu. As a movie, is very powerful and, touchy, and exciting.

My problems are from the historical perspective.

I guarrantee you that many people will say that a crow got the bad thief.

That's how many things have crept into Christian lore like Veronica.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonal@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.

I would say that most people who went to see the movie are familiar with the history and realize that Mel Gibson is an artist and may have altered some of the historical facts - Hollywood does that all of the time.

I truly believe that people got the 'message' and that is what is important.

If people want historical accuracy all they have to do is open their bibles - I did, as soon as I got home from the movie.

For those who do not know the history, I believe that they too, got the message. As for historical accuracy, I do believe there is a guide book out about the movie where questions can be answered. I suppose for someone like yourself,

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), April 16, 2004.