I saw the "passion" movie, and was surprised that it showed Jesus crush the head of the serpent in the garden.

Wouldn't the time to crush the serpent's head have been when Jesus died on the cross?, showing Mary doing the crushing ????

And, according to my Douay-Rheims Bible, in Genesis 3:15, it says, "she shall crush thy head"

Thanks for any answers,

Jerry

-- Jerry Mazzarelli (jerry@aol.com), February 28, 2004

Answers

I need to "bump" this to the new answers ? is that right ?

I am new here.

Thanks,\

jerry

-- Jerry Mazzarelli (jerry@aol.com), February 28, 2004.

Jerry,
The Catholic New American Bible reads:
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.

The Douay-Rheims reads:
"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed; she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." However, this rendering appears to differ from the original Hebrew text.

Jerry,
The Catholic New American Bible reads:
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.

The Douay-Rheims reads:
"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed; she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." However, this rendering appears to differ from the original Hebrew text.

The Douay-Rheims agreed with the Vulgate text in reading "she" (ipsa) which refers to the woman, while the Hebrew text reads hu' (autos, ipse) which refers to the seed of the woman. According to the DR, and the Vulgate reading, the woman herself will win the victory; according to the Hebrew text, she will be victorious through her seed. In this sense does the Bull Ineffabilis Deus ascribe the victory to Our Blessed Lady.

From Ineffabilis Deus:
The Fathers and writers of the Church, well versed in the heavenly Scriptures, had nothing more at heart than to vie with one another in preaching and teaching in many wonderful ways the Virgin's supreme sanctity, dignity, and immunity from all stain of sin, and her renowned victory over the most foul enemy of the human race. This they did in the books they wrote to explain the Scriptures, to vindicate the dogmas, and to instruct the faithful. These ecclesiastical writers in quoting the words by which at the beginning of the world God announced his merciful remedies prepared for the regeneration of mankind -- words by which he crushed the audacity of the deceitful serpent and wondrously raised up the hope of our race, saying, "I will put enmities between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed"[13] -- taught that by this divine prophecy the merciful Redeemer of mankind, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was clearly foretold: That his most Blessed Mother, the Virgin Mary, was prophetically indicated; and, at the same time, the very enmity of both against the evil one was significantly expressed. Hence, just as Christ, the Mediator between God and man, assumed human nature, blotted the handwriting of the decree that stood against us, and fastened it triumphantly to the cross, so the most holy Virgin, united with him by a most intimate and indissoluble bond, was, with him and through him, eternally at enmity with the evil serpent, and most completely triumphed over him, and thus crushed his head with her immaculate foot.

The reading "she" (ipsa) is neither an intentional corruption of the original text, nor is it an accidental error; it is rather an explanatory version expressing explicitly the fact of Our Lady's part in the victory over the serpent, which is contained implicitly in the Hebrew original. The strength of the Christian tradition as to Mary's share in this victory may be inferred from the retention of "she" in St. Jerome's version in spite of his acquaintance with the original text and with the reading "he" (ipse) in the old Latin version.

This explanation comes, in part, from the http://www.newadven t.org/cathen/15464b.htm”> old Catholic Encyclopedia.

This explanation comes from the http://www.newadven t.org/cathen/15464b.htm”> old Catholic Encyclopedia.

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), February 28, 2004.

Douay-Rheims version clearly reads: ''He shall crush your head, and you shall lie in wait for His heel.'' Verse :15--

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 28, 2004.

Eugene,
see: http://www.intrat ext.com/IXT/ENG0011/_P3.HTM

It is also that way in my family Bible.

-bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), February 28, 2004.

Well,

So is anyone gonna answer my question ?

Why didn't Mel show the crushing of the head of the snake AFTER the fact, instead of before.

Jesus didn't crush the head of Satan in the garden.

It was His act of giving his life that did it.

Mel is confused.

And so, it seems, is the church.

Jerry

-- Jerry (jerry@aol.com), February 28, 2004.

Jerry, You asked Why didn't Mel show the crushing of the head of the snake AFTER the fact, instead of before. Jesus didn't crush the head of Satan in the garden. It was His act of giving his life that did it.

Yes, you are correct, it was His act of giving His life that crushed the head of Satan. This is Church teaching and has been for centuries.

As far as Mel’s movie is concerned, we need to understand that the crushing of the serpent’s head is not in scripture, so if he was to show it at all, he would have to choose the time and the place. Thinking about it, I think he found a good place to put it. Remember, this is artistic and prophetic symbolism at work. Realizing that Jesus was, in fact, first struck by ‘the serpent’ in the garden. That is to say, the act of betrayal that would eventually lead to his death one could then interpret that the following scenes of the Passion are the serpent's "biting his heal". Jesus responds by totally accepting His fate and using it to forgive man's original sin. This is the ‘crushing the head of the serpent’. The ‘serpent’ who caused Adam and Eve to sin in the first place. This symbolism is enhanced by the devil’s presence in the garden. Not a bad artistic interpretation.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the fact that the older Catholic Bibles have a ‘she’ where a ‘he’ should be in Genesis as all modern Catholic Bibles have it. Even centuries ago the Church taught that Jesus was the one who crushed the head of the serpent. This has long been recognized by Catholics. The footnotes provided a couple of hundred years ago by Bishop Challoner in his revision of the Douay state, "The sense [of these two readings] is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent's head." Mary, through her cooperation in the incarnation and her witnessing the sufferings and death of her Son, indirectly crushed the serpent and was indirectly struck by the serpent.

-bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@Hotmail.com), February 28, 2004.

Very true, Bill. Furthermore the intent of Gen 3:15 is clear enough; a woman caused our fall from grace, and the new Eve ''woman'' would bring us a Redeemer who crushes the head of this primeval serpent. We are shown not just this prophesy, but the state of enmity between Mary and Satan, established by God Himself. Mary is the devil's natural enemy by God's own Will.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 28, 2004.

Jerry,

In scripture, the serpent represented Satan him(her)self.

In the movie, the snake was representative of only a temptation by Satan. Christ was overcoming that temptation not to undertake the Passion in the Garden of Gethsemane. It was a bit of poetic license by the director, and there was no serpent at Gethsemane in scripture.

Just my take on it.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), March 01, 2004.