In a Conversation I had with an 18 year old woman, we discussed Homosexuality. She was "Scared" of Rhea county outlawing Homosexuality. I tild he rnpt to be, as the supreme court woudl overturn the desision. ( Turned out not to be needed.)

Well, she used the normal Liberal language, this was "I ntolerent". I became annoyed, and reminded her of the California Judges allowign Same Sex marriages, in defianc eof he law they had vowed to defend. At least with Rhea county the law was made by lawmakers, and counld be overturned. A bad law can be overturned, a bad past presedent cant.

She defended the activist judges and used the old, tired " well blacks and women had ot def the law too." well, no thet didnt. Martain Luther King did not defy the law. Likewise, even when they did, as in the case of rosa Parks, they wherent civil servents who had VOWED to keep the law.

She then accused me of wantign to feel powerful, and told nme I reallyw asnt all that powerful. All I really wanted was for someone who had claimed ot see all sides to actually see that the fight fo Gay Roghts is oxymoronic as they already have equel rights nd that the Moral Queatsion shoudl nto be ignored, nor shoudl we ignore the illegal activities of Gay activists Judges. ( Who themselves are Gay and only doung this to further their own selfish agendas.)

Why exaclty do I get accused of wantign to feel powerful and not really carign about anyhtign and just wantign to arue when all I d is make a moral stand ? This happens quiet often.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 22, 2004

Answers

BUMP

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 22, 2004.

Zarove,

I can't say for sure, not being there of course, but it is likely that you get accused of these things, because (in my opinion) people tend to resort to these kinds of attacks when they feel they cannot defend their position any other way. Instead of dealing in the truth or having to admit that they are wrong about something, a person will tend to resort to personal and ad homenium attacks as a defensive tactic. You are taking a moral stand, and abiding by the truth, and instead of seeing that these people are attacking you and making it personal, because if they were to deal with the real issue, they would have to back down on their own position, and they don't want to do that.

Make sense?

-- cksunshine (ck_sunshine@hotmail.com), March 22, 2004.

Ir makes sence. I am just tired of beign called Intolerent, stupid, or powerjungry because I make such statements. of ocuse they claim they are for peopels happiness, and I am imposing my views.

In reality, most peopel who live liberally, Homosexually, promiscuously, or otherwise loose form any moral standard, are MORE depressive than those who dont.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 22, 2004.

There are certain subjects that are very emotionally charged. I think we all know what they are. Its been my experience that you really can't change anybody's mind about such issues. Doesn't matter how good the argument is. In fact people with opposing opinions will often dig in deeper when challenged. The only thing to do is determine which side of the fence someone is on, and then decide whether you want to avoid the discussion,... or risk be called intolerant. Which ever way you go, its unlikely any minds will be changed.

-- Jim Furst (furst@flash.net), March 22, 2004.

i disagree, jim.

prior to joining this forum i was under the impression that while i morally disagreed with homosexuality that it was not my place to say that others shouldnt have completely equal rights. in fact, had you asked me two years ago, i may have agreed with gay marraige.

as people grow, and as they are allowed time to react and let information sink in over time, they will come about, just as i did.

Proud to say, i am now one of the most anti-immoral decadence advocates out there.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 22, 2004.

I seriously have trouble getting through most of what you write zarove.

-- I can Speeeel!!! (spell@grammarschool.com), March 22, 2004.

zarove has trouble with spelling because he is dislexic. lay off.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 22, 2004.

Paul,

My response to Zarove was more related to my perception (I don't know how accurate it was) of his weariness of the counter attack. I can relate to it. Over the years I have been involved in many debates that seemed to go nowhere. I came to the realization that some people simply enjoyed arguing with me about things. Most people with whome I'm still in contact, may have "moderated" some of their views over the years, but the core points remain unchanged. Perhaps in some cases (over time,) I would like to think maybe something I've said has influenced someone to eventually reach a conclusion that more closely matches my own. I think its possible to influence a person's position about certain issues within a topic they feel strongly about, but very difficult to effect a "180."

There is the occational "epiphany," usually caused by something more earth shattering than a good argument. For example, I had always strongly been against the death penalty. (Many discussions and arguments about that subject over the years) In 1980 my uncle was murdered during a robbery by some punk kids. Bang... I became all for the death penalty. You could argue with me till you were blue and I was pro-death penalty. Now after 25 years I've come back to my original position... and now argue against the death penalty...again. I think mostly we end up finding our own way. As far as the original issue, if someone wants to argue about an emotionally charged issue, they have to want to take on the negative aspects of the "battle." I guess I've just become a little weary of it.

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), March 23, 2004.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

I find the Catholic Church stance on homosexuality refreshing and I might add nonhypocritical.

In the Catholic faith homosexual sex is equal in seriousness with sex outside marriage (heterosexual) as well as sodomy amongst married couples. Noone gets a free pass. If the act is not open to the possibility of children amongst a validly married couple its not permitted. That is so fair. Some christian faiths say anything goes once you are married. Contraception, sodomy, abortion, kinky stuff are permitted by different faiths as long as you are MARRIED. What hypocracy. Other faiths seem to claim that homosexuality is a more serious sin than adultery or fornication. Wrong again.

-- David F (notanaddress@nowhere.com), March 23, 2004.

Well said David.

One quibble: Sexual acts between two people of the same sex ARE, objectively, more seriously sinful than fornication between two people of opposite sexes. Some people would get the impression from your last 2 sentences that this is not the case.

These acts are more seriously sinful because they pervert the very nature of sexuality, in that they cannot possibly produce children even if both individuals are naturally able to be fertile.

Of course it is possible that in an individual case, committing this sin may be subjectively less seriously sinful than normal fornication, depending on things like: - Does the person understand what he/she is doing? - Does he/she understand how serious it is? - How much pressure is he/she under from others to do it? etc.

-- Peter K (ronkpken@yahoo.com.au), April 18, 2004.

Well said David.

One quibble: Sexual acts between two people of the same sex ARE, objectively, more seriously sinful than fornication between two people of opposite sexes. Some people would get the impression from your last 2 sentences that this is not the case.

These acts are more seriously sinful because they pervert the very nature of sexuality, in that BY THEIR VERY NATURE, these acts cannot possibly produce children even if both individuals are naturally able to be fertile.

Of course it is possible that in an individual case, committing this sin may be subjectively less seriously sinful than normal fornication, depending on things like: - Does the person understand what he/she is doing? - Does he/she understand how serious it is? - How much pressure is he/she under from others to do it? etc.

-- Peter K (ronkpken@yahoo.com.au), April 18, 2004.