I've had catholics whine about cafeteria christians...

How is that any different from YOUR picking and choosing to believe what you believe in and don't believe in? So many of you choose to disregard things like Evolution Theory and Big Bang theory. You also choose whom to accept as authority and whom not to. You make the choice to take the Catholic Church as authority. I contend that you are picking and choosing what you believe in just as much as anyone who believes differently from you.

-- Mike (SpikeyMikey@hotmail.com), March 29, 2004

Answers

I have never heard the term cafeteria christian.

I have on the other hand heard of cafeteria or Kroger catholics. Many catholics (John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Dennis Kucinich to name a few) pick and choose what they accept from the catholic faith and earn this title. If they don't agree on abortion they ignore the Church. If they disagree on contraception they do what they want.

We all pick what we choose to believe as God gave us free will. I choose to believe that the Catholic Church teaches the full truth. My former Episcopal church did not. I also think other churchs are also in error about many things. Some favor abortion. Others back gay marriage. The Catholic church (like God Himself) cannot change dogma with time. That should tell you something IF you believe in God.

-- David F (notanaddress@nowhere.com), March 29, 2004.

Also wanted to add. Evolution and the Big Bang are OK to accept as catholics. Science is not a threat to our faith, as it never can contradict God.

-- David F (notanaddress@nowhere.com), March 29, 2004.

"How is that any different from YOUR picking and choosing to believe what you believe in and don't believe in?"

A: Catholics do not "choose" what to believe in, any more than the Apostles "chose" what to believe in. Jesus Christ - GOD - TOLD the Apostles what they were to believe in, and He gave them full authority to tell others what they are likewise to believe in, through the one true Church He founded for all men, and guaranteed to teach the fullness of truth. Those who have left His Church have chosen what - and who - they will believe in. Catholics don't choose. They simply obey.

"So many of you choose to disregard things like Evolution Theory and Big Bang theory."

A: Irrelevant. These are matters of science, not faith.

"You also choose whom to accept as authority and whom not to. You make the choice to take the Catholic Church as authority".

A: Again, no, we do not. It is the Word of God which tells us that the Church Christ founded is the pillar and foundation of truth, and clearly defines that Church and that Church alone as the sole bearer of His own authority. It is the Word of God which tells us that whatsoever the leaders of His Church bind on earth is also bound in heaven. It is the Word of God which reveals Christ's promise to the leaders of His Church - "he who hears you hears Me; he who rejects you rejects Me". Therefore, there is no choice here at all, except the choice either to obey God or to reject His Word in favor of human denominational tradition.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 30, 2004.

Mike, God gives us free will to choose His teaching given to us by His son or not. Christ established a Church to pass down His teaching. That Church is the Catholic Church. There is only one that He established. Yes, we choose to follow in Christ's footsteps. Why not join us?

In Christ, Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 30, 2004.

Any theory about the beginning of time (eg. Big Bang, Evolution, etc.) are considered acceptable for Catholics, as long as we agree that God initiated and created the world. In other words, if you want to believe in the Big Bang theory, you can, as long as you acknowledge that God caused the "bang" and all the things subsequent that led to the creation of the world. This is true because God has not chosen to directly reveal exactly how the world came to be, but scientists study this and come up with theories. There is the creation account in Genesis, but the first one (ch 1) is poetic, followed by another creation account in chapter 2. This does not mean that we believe that God created two worlds, or that He created the world twice. Instead, it is just another way to tell the story.

As for "picking and choosing" authority, we do not pick and choose - we left that to God. Jesus established His Church on Peter when he said "You are Rock (Peter=Rock), and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." (Matthew 16). We choose the Catholic Church because we are merely following Jesus' authority and initiative.

God bless,

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), March 30, 2004.

To have a clearer picture of how Catholics should understand the passages of Genesis that deal with the creation of the Universe and the creation of our first Parents please read Pope Pius XII Encyclical HUMANI GENERIS or the commentaries on these passages from the Jerusalem Bible.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), March 30, 2004.

Actualy Mikey also asked for proof Jesus exsted. I relaly think his knowledge of Christains in general, never mind Catholics, is limited.

I agree thouhg, evolution and Big Bang can be held without contradiction to faith. Indeed, This may Shock Mikey, byrt the man who formulated the "Big Bang" theory, then cllef the Primordial Atom theory, was a Jesuit Preist. At the time, most Sicnetists accepterd the Steady State theory, in which the Universe always exosted,a nd always woudl exist. This contradicted th Bible, which mentions a creation, tus tme of creation.

Using mathematics and kowlege of astronomhy, he formulated the Big Bang theory, which won cfredibility when edwin Hubble discovered the expandign Universe.

Thus the Cathokic Faith proved more vlaid scoentifically than the rigional, mainy atheoistic, scientific worldvew of thr time. Through that. all Christainity, save the Fundamentalist sections of the faith, where actually helped.

Later, Skeptics then leaped tot he conclusion thst Bog Bang was atheistic, and that it contraicted Creation, s as to set upo a straw man argument to attack the faith. They where awarded creidbility as they mainly attacdd fundamentalists.

Few actual Christains are fundameltalists though.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 30, 2004.

I would like to add, that we complain about cafateria christians because Christianity is, by its nature, a singular whole. Christ deposited one faith, take it or leave it. Christians should take take the entirety.

On the otherhand science is properly taken in a cafeteria style. It pursues scientific truths one at a time. Just look at how it works. It takes a specific set of data, then formulates a theory to explain it. This theory is presented to be tested, and accordingly accepted or rejected. Only after extensive work does science proceed to make something a Law. (which is why there are so few Laws in science). If a particular theory passes or fails scrutiny it does not affect the nature of already established Laws.

In the end Christianity is a deposited whole and is properly dealt with as such. Science is a collection of piecemail propositions and is properly dealt with as such. This isn't contradiction, this is proper application of reason. Treat Christianity as its nature would properly have it treated and treat science as its nature would properly have it treated. It is an enormous error to think that you should use one methodology in all fields. That is bad science and it is bad religion. Nobody wins there.

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), March 30, 2004.

I still fail to see any qualitative difference.

You have studied and listened and thought about it and decided that the doctrine of the Catholic Church is right.

Others have studied and listened and thought about it and decided that no formal church doctrine is right.

You accuse the cafeteria Christians of only believing what suits them, but the other side of the coin is the idea we see that these Christians are pursuing a personal relationship with God through their own feelings and hearts. They therefor believe that if they feel something is wrong, that's God communicating with them that it is wrong. They believe that there is no need to check with human authority figures when they can go straight to the source. And the teachings of Jesus as written in the Gospels lend a lot of support to that belief system. I don't remember Jesus telling people to listen to human religious authorities, I remember Jesus telling people to listen to God.

I'm not trying to convince you that they are right. I'm just trying to make you understand their belief system is a lot more solid than you give it credit for.

-- Mike (SpikeyMikey@hotmail.com), March 30, 2004.

Mike you said: "I still fail to see any qualitative difference. You have studied and listened and thought about it and decided that the doctrine of the Catholic Church is right. "

It doesn't matter what I say, what you say or what anyone else says. Christ established the doctrine. Christ is God, so it is right. Period. It is what is known as an objective truth.

We can deny it, but by doing so we don't negate it.

In Christ, Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 30, 2004.

I still fail to see any qualitative difference.

{Maybe you are approachign it int he wrogn way. After all, why woudl anyone belomg to any Christain group if they dnt think it was right?}- Zarove

You have studied and listened and thought about it and decided that the doctrine of the Catholic Church is right.

{Nope. I am not Catholic. Most here are though Again, even if their is no real difference, and peopel do what they think is correct, so what? They are still doing what they hbelei e is crrect, and the best one who disagrees can do is tell why.}-Zarove

Others have studied and listened and thought about it and decided that no formal church doctrine is right.

{Again, this means what, exaclty? If we are discussing person by person, this is valid. If however we are tryign to come to what is true between the differing beleifs, we must contract the beelifs. You arent doing either.What you are doing is stating hte self evident.}- Zarove

You accuse the cafeteria Christians of only believing what suits them, but the other side of the coin is the idea we see that these Christians are pursuing a personal relationship with God through their own feelings and hearts.

{Not always. Some do so by reason, not by feelings and hearts. I am not one given to emotional reaciton, nor is it my practice to allow emotionalism to guide my life.Emotion is a good thing, but it is fleeting, transitory, and often misleading. Often following ones feelings is dangerous and destructive.

Just to or three weeks ago i heard at Churhc that we arent to live our lives by our feelings,a nd its a pentacostal Chruch. ( Not my native Church mind you.)

Some people are tryign to do what they think is right after having reaosned it out, and arent always basin htings on feelings, those who do base them on feeligns often have alterior, selfish reaosns for teacign what they teach. Doctorines that are aihgt bu them make them feel comfortable, but arent reliable, as they arent based on anythign byt their feelings.}-Zarove

They therefor believe that if they feel something is wrong, that's God communicating with them that it is wrong.

{Most Chrisyaisn actually do think like this, and those that do are usually Nominals, and use whatever means of justificatin they can find to live as they please. Sorry, again, "Cafetiria Christains" as you cll them are clealry rong form a Protestant viewpoint, as well as a cahtolic one, as wll as any formal reasoning standpoint.Only a romantic woudl find this veiw good to endorse.}-Zarove

They believe that there is no need to check with human authority figures when they can go straight to the source.

{Above to mention thie Hearts and feelings. Thi sia good soiurce. if you mean God and the Bible, i agree, but you must be careful nto to confuse God with ones own personal feelings.}-Zarove

And the teachings of Jesus as written in the Gospels lend a lot of support to that belief system.

{Depends on what beelif you mean. Jesus's teachigns do not lend themselves at all to allowign your feeligns ot be your guide, since Jesus said ot to trust your heart. He and Paul both asked for faith, but also demanded reason.}-Zarove

I don't remember Jesus telling people to listen to human religious authorities, I remember Jesus telling people to listen to God.

{But you are saying peopel who listen to their Hearts are the same...thats false.

Also, he did say " Render unto caeser..." he also mentioend Bishops and such, and that we are acuntable to the group we are in.}- Zarove

I'm not trying to convince you that they are right. I'm just trying to make you understand their belief system is a lot more solid than you give it credit for.

{Since I am a Protestant and thus a "Caferteria Christain" as you called it, I have to say that My beleifs are mor solid than you give them creidt for. ( You did after all ask how we can beleive Jesus existed.)

Protestant chruches are usually Based on Sola Scriptura, menaign the scriptures are the final auhtority. Not our own hearts. }

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 30, 2004.