I'm thinking about leaving Roman Catholicism and converting to Judaism. After all, Judaism originated around 1800 BCE in the land of Israel, also known as Palestine. That's a looooooong time before Christianity. So Judaism must be the one true religion, right? Christianity is basically an "off-shoot" of Judaism, right? Christians can try all they want to justify their "church" by saying it is the fulfillment of the covenant between God and his people, containing more truth than Judaism, but you know what? Isn't that basically the argument Protestant give for justifying their own church?

I'm sticking with Judaism.

-- EC (EC@hotmail.com), May 05, 2004

Answers

Actually, Chrisains, rather protestna's claim that the Cahtolic chruch went astray and was in need of reform.

Christains, be they Cahtokic or Protesntat, beelive int he Messhiah. The Jewish Scriptrues speak of the messhiah.

Chrisyainity is more than just an off shoot of Judaism, rather, Chrisainity is based ont eh tenet of the Saviour who was ot come, who to us has come. Jews still await the Messiah, Chrisyains do not, for we have him, and he has forgiven us our sins.

Also, just because soemthign is older doesn't make it more valid, for thogh I myself think Judaism is valid, it is incomplete without its Messiah, and even Judaism tells you that they aait their Lord.

Thus, why convert from Chrisyainity to go to Judaism, when Judaism lacks the Saviour? Is that not going backward rather than forward? Not that i can change your mind, but just a note.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), May 05, 2004.

I'm thinking about leaving Roman Catholicism and converting to Judaism

hehe, the rabbies won't put up with you like we do! ;)

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), May 05, 2004.

E.C., are you serious? Joking right? If not, a Messianic Jewish synagogue would be preferable.

God bless, John

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), May 05, 2004.

Judaism points directly to the coming of the Messiah. The Messiah arrived, died, burried, and resurrected. For one to return to Judaism of the past would be like taking the wheels off you car and replacing them with wagon wheels. Your path to Salvation will need a severe push in the right direction and, once you get there, you will find out that you have arrived where you left off.

...................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 05, 2004.

Historicity - the ancientness of a faith, isn't the only sign of its truth. After all, long before Moses, there were Hindus and Egyptians and Chinese believing in a pantheon of gods... but we don't believe that pantheism or polytheism is true.

So what DO we base faith on? Miracles? It depends on what you define them as...even the Egyptians had wonders and the Greeks had myths about amazing things occuring around their temples.

The Jews claim many things about God and his revelation to them - specifically all the wonders recorded in Exodus. But no one besides them witnessed these wonders. No one but they witnessed Mt Sinai explode, heard and saw the Theophany of God and the giving of the commandments... and actually, no one but Moses himself actually "saw" God.

But the people did put faith in him - and their descendents put their faith in their elders, just as we put our faith in the apostles and the church fathers...

Partially our faith rests on the coherence of the scriptures/gospel. Partially on the witness of holiness of life of the missionaries whose other-worldly virtue bears a mark of truth and supernatural origin. Partially we look at miracles - "signs" of something beyond the mere mythical or madeup. But in the end, faith is not a syllogism or deduction. It's not a exercise in reason alone, but an assent or acceptance by reason of something beyond reason.

"Salvation comes from the Jews" - this is true, because through that people God revealed his plan for the human race. But the current crop of Jews don't understand themselves as being a race of priests whose mission it is to convert the world. Christians do.

One faith, while true in and of itself (the Old Testament is true revelation, the Law is actually good, otherwise God wouldn't have given it), does not point to global salvation. Their outlook is decidedly NOT pointing towards an eventual reunion of the family of Adam under one roof.

The other, Christianity, is also true in itself by completing the divine plan started in the Jewish people by bringing salvation to the world through them.

Which of these has a seal of divine pleasure? Obviously the Jewish people are blessed by God insofar as they have endured, they're still with us whereas all other ethnicities from 1000 BC have largely died off along with their religions and cultures. Something has to account for this endurance. But endurance, "survival" alone was never the point. Obeying God and leading others to this obedience was the point... and Christianity fulfills this.

Thus it wouldn't be wise to reject the fullness of revelation and the mission of God to go back to an earlier and reduced version with a reduced understanding of God's will.

The rich young man went away sad precisely because Christ revealed to him a higher calling and higher standard of holiness as the basis for "being perfect". The rich young man had already fulfilled the 10 commandments! I suppose he went back to keeping them...but they alone in light of the higher call: go, sell what you own and give it to the poor, then come follow me" could not be forgotten as though it were never given!

Neither can you, a Catholic forget what has been revealed and handed on and go back to what was before. The Jews after Mt.Sinai couldn't do that either! They couldn't just decide to go back to the simpler life they led before Moses and the Law!

Time and our place in it, and God's revelation to us doesn't work like that. "When I was a child, I acted like a child...now that I'm grown I must act like an adult" (St Paul).

Go and do likewise!

Peace

Joe

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), May 05, 2004.

Sweet post Joe!

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), May 05, 2004.

Hehe, I didn't expect to get all those responses. Of course I'm joking. After seeing that stupid, "Who started your church?" website, I was compelled to take that site's way of reasoning and present it in all its stupidity in the form of a bitter sarcastic joke.

-- EC (EC@hotmail.com), May 05, 2004.

Once you accept the biblical truth that Jesus Christ founded only ONE Church, the information on that website becomes extremely important, since it is obvious that the oldest Christian Church must be the one He founded.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), May 05, 2004.

John P,

No sir! It would be putting a soul in grave danger to leave the Catholic Church.

Hell is "Hell" son. It doesn't matter how you try and slice it.

I'm glad the saints of the past didn't have your "wimpy" attitude John.[Even though EC was kidding:-)]

-- - (David@excite.com), May 06, 2004.

John P,

Have read your posts for quite some time. You speak your mind and your character is anything but "wimpy." I respect your regard for ecumenism.

John Paul II has demonstrated his recognision of the importance of respecting other faiths.

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), May 06, 2004.

Don't put the cart before the horse Jimmy Furst! What are you using for a "barometer"?

"John Paul has demonstrated his reconision of the importance of respecting other faiths.."

We are talking about leaving the Catholic faith here Jimmy. Scroll up and read it again.

See? As Catholics we know to leave the faith is putting our soul in grave danger. Only a fool would suggest otherwise.

-- - (David@excite.com), May 06, 2004.

David

EC was not serious, and John P. does not have a wimpy attitude. Your approach doesn't put people on track, it puts them on the defensive. You might make your point, but you are less likely to change minds. People often dig into their positions, right or wrong after being stung.

That being said, I generally enjoy your posts too.

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), May 07, 2004.

Jimmy,

It was just a joke. I like John and know he isn't a "whimp". I know John is serious about everything and I just try and agitate him sometimes. He is in law enforsement so he knows this. :-)

On another note Jimbo, did you know that you and I are(almost) neighbors?

-- - (David@excite.com), May 08, 2004.

David,

You live in my neighborhood? (Uh oh..,You know where I live?)

I'm so amazed by how small the world is getting. Here I'm thinking I'm somewhat anonymous; how could I possibly run into someone I know here in cyberville? I guess I'm going to have to watch my P's and Q's... around the hood "and" on this board.

I hope you'll give me a hint. I do know some Davids over the years. Got along quite well with all I can think of, so I'm pretty sure we're on good terms.

-- JimFurst (furst@flash.net), May 08, 2004.

Jim, David, please don't post any personal information to the forum. If you wish, you may send me your private email addresses via my email address given here and I will see the other individual receives it. Thanks.

Moderator

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 09, 2004.

Hi, Jim

I said, "almost neighbors". I didn't mean that I realy know you. I mean't that we live close. About 10-15 times a year I go to the Basilica of the Assumption for the holy Mass on North Charles street. I live 50 min west from there.

Just for me to mention this shows that we are "internet homeboys" :-)

God bless you

PS: I didn't mention anything personal Ed. I thought you made a wise choice when you deleted a posters home number after they posted it before.

-- - (David@excite.com), May 09, 2004.

Thanks for the clarification David.

I racked my brains for a day trying to figure out who you might be. Some of my closer friends over the years have called me Jimmy, so your greeting further added to the 24 hour mystery. Really had me going!

The Basilica is a beautiful church. I haven't been in since the renovations began. There was quite a bit of controversy about removing the stained glass and replacing it with the original clear glass. I'm looking forward to seeing the progress.

-- furst@flash.net (furst@flash.net), May 10, 2004.

You're very welcome First@flash.net.

I appreciate going to Confession at the Basilica. I haven't been there since the lenten season. I wished they would not have changed the windows. I think I would keep the widows the same if it were up to me.

I also go to the Seton Shrine and Grotto about 20 or so times a year. I know the place better than most that go to Mt. St. Marys. I know where Mother Setons family is burried back at Grotto and were her two daughters (Rebbeca and Annina) are burried by the Basilica at the Seton Shrine.

If you ever want a good tour guide on a weekend please let me know and give me a few weeks notice. You wouldn't be the first person from forum that I have shown around there and prayed with. The Grotto is a very holy place.

I love St. Elizabeth Ann Seton! She is one of my favorite saints if not my favorite. I just prayed in front of her earthly remains this past Sunday.

May Mother Seton pray for Emily with her decesion on becoming a Nun.

God bless you

-- - (David@excite.com), May 10, 2004.

David said: May Mother Seton pray for Emily with her decesion on becoming a Nun.

Thank you, David for your prayers. I truly appreciate it. I still have a few years will college and paying off loans, but I long for the day.

God bless,

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), May 10, 2004.

David,

Thank you for the offer. That might be very interesting. Have you ever been to St. Ignatius on Calvert St.?

-- Jim Furst (furst@flash.net), May 15, 2004.

You are welcome Emily. Mother Seton converted to Catholicism and became a Nun and so did two of her daughters and her sister in law (Harriet)and help start Catholic schools in America. Blessed be God a million, million, million times!

No I haven't been to that church Jimmy. Maybe one day friend. :-)

-- - (David@excite.com), May 16, 2004.

Christianity isn't an offshoot of Judaism its it's utter and pure fulfilment. Go to this website http://www.1stlovethelord.homestead.com/prophecies.html#anchor_13331 it lists all the over 300 propheises of the messiah all of which have been fulfilled by Jesus. the old testement states the exact date of the crucifixion, the method of his death (pierced hands and feet), his birth place, how after his death the gentiles would be converted (to monotheism) and so forth. if you read them u will see that Jesus fulfilled all the 300 prophesies, all of which are impossible to be fullfilled by chance or will only by God Himself. This person calculated for all those to be fulfilled by one man (without God) would be 1 to 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 (no joke). just search "messianic prophecies" on a search engine to find out more.

Also Protestantism isn't justified since they didn't get their authority from the apostles who got it from Christ. And Christ is the fullness of Revelation not Reformers like Luther or Calvin. If they were valid that means that you could form the church of EC@hotmail.com and ordain bishops and consecrate eucharist hosts.

But hey, if you want to remain ignorant of the over 300 prophesies of the Messiah in the old testement written at least 400 years before christs birth and stories of stigmata (Padre Pio), weeping statues and miraculous healings (Our Lady of Lourdes)which have been unexplainable to the greatest scientists and skeptics that only occur in 20th/ 21st Century Catholism, please go ahead and wilfully deny truth and Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

-- fabio (aaaa_24@hotmail.com), May 29, 2004.

I guess that makes 3 of us who are practically neighbors. I work in Baltimore and know the churches you're referring to and I live only 30 minutes from Emmitsburg.

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), May 29, 2004.

Glad to have you in Club Baltimore Dave!

-- Jim Furst (furst@flash.net), May 29, 2004.

Hi, Dave

I wasn't aware of that. Are you west of Emmittsburg or closer to Westminster?

Thats the way Mother Seton went from Baltimore to Emmittsburg. It took 3 days by horse going straight up what now is route 140 through Taneytown.

There is a Orthodox church right around the corner from the Baslica in Baltimore. I worked in Baltimore last year too.:-)

-- - (David@excite.com), May 30, 2004.