POPE BLASTS BUSH ON RECENT EVENTS IN IRAQ

Updated 9:01 PM ET June 4, 2004

ROME (AP) - President Bush got a sharp dose of Europe's opposition to his Iraq policy Friday, quietly in the halls of the Vatican from Pope John Paul II and loudly in the streets of Rome from thousands of demonstrators.

The ailing pontiff complained about recent "deplorable events," an apparent reference to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops. In the absence of a commitment to shared human values, "neither war nor terrorism will ever be overcome," he said, struggling to speak.

However, the pope welcomed the recent establishment of an interim government and called for a speedy transfer of sovereignty to the Iraqis.

Not far from the Vatican walls, tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets to demonstrate through central Rome, many with signs demanding Italy withdraw its troops from Iraq. A score of demonstrators hurling stones clashed with police during the march. Others threw firecrackers and set a trash can on fire.

Bush had dinner with a top ally on Iraq, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. On Saturday, the president heads to Paris to meet with one of his sharpest war critics, French President Jacques Chirac.

Despite Berlusconi's backing, and his decision to send 3,000 Italian troops to Iraq, polls show that a majority of Italians oppose the U.S.-led war and occupation of Iraq, a sentiment common throughout western Europe.

-- Melvin Schwartz (mel43258@aol.com), June 04, 2004

Answers

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-- Mel (mel43258@aol.com), June 04, 2004.

Instead of reading what the secular media wishes the Pope said (so they twist his words to mean what they want them to mean), read what he really did say, here: HOLY FATHER'S ADDRESS TO PRES. BUSH - text

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), June 04, 2004.

Alright Bill, I will use your example of what the Pope said. Your article states the Pope said the following:

"You are very familiar with the unequivocal position of the Holy See in this regard, expressed in numerous documents, through direct and indirect contacts, and in the many diplomatic efforts which have been made since you visited me, first at Castelgandolfo on 23 July 2001, and again in this Apostolic Palace on 28 May 2002."

Believe it or not, some in this forum take this "unequivocal position" to mean a ringing endorsement by the "Holy See" for what George W. Bush has done in Iraq to date. In the very least, some believe it to mean the Church's "unequivocal position" is that it has no position on the war in Iraq. Incredible!

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), June 05, 2004.

Ed,
As you know "unequivocal position" means "unequivocal position", but it does not state exactly what that unequivocal position was. Why? Because it was kept private. What we do know is that the Pope's unequivocal position on war is that he is against it. ALL wars. He wants mankind to find a better way of resolving serious problems. This is a good position for a spiritual leader. However, as you also know, in Catholicism, the determination of going to war or not going to war is not left in the Pope's hands.

The nice thing about all this is that now, for the first time in a very long time, the Iraqi people have a chance of freedom and to actually run their own country. Let's hope and pray they will succeed. Democracy can be a very messy business, but if they succeed and plant the seed of democracy in the middle of Arabia, then other countries may follow suite (watch Iran, which is about to start a revolution.)

Take care,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), June 05, 2004.

More insights on yesterday's trip:

Terror now biggest challenge

Bush met privately Friday with Pope John Paul II -- a staunch opponent of the war and presented the aged pontiff with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest honor the United States offers to civilians.

In a wavering voice, the pope told Bush that the international community must be included in further dealings with Iraq, but addressed his long-held opposition to the war only in passing.

The pope also deplored terrorism of all kinds and said, in a reference to the prisoner abuse scandal at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison, that "other deplorable events have come to light which have troubled the civic and religious conscience of all, and made more difficult a serene and resolute commitment to shared human values.

"In the absence of such a commitment," he said, "neither war nor terrorism will ever be overcome."

In his joint news conference with Berlusconi, Bush said was equally outraged about the prison abuse in Iraq and vowed a full investigation into the matter.

"Like his holiness, I was repulsed by the pictures I saw, by the treatment by some of our troops toward Iraqi prisoners," Bush said. "That treatment did not reflect the spirit of America.

"Those people stained our honor and there will be a full investigation in a transparent way about the actions that took place which will stand in stark contrast to what takes place in a society that is run by a tyrant."

Remarks by President Bush and Prime Minister Berlusconi

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), June 05, 2004.