Can we get to Heaven if we forego saying the rosary? If a person is devout, going to 3-5 Masses per week, goes to confession once a month, and prays some prayers through the day (mental prayers mostly short invocations like "Jesus I love you"...), what do you think?

-- mp (marypar@hotmail.com), August 12, 2004

Answers

I think so, especialy since the rosary was invented int eh Middle Ages a sa Meditation tool.

It is not, nor was it ever, requited for Salvation. Many dln't even know how to recite it.

Salvation is from Jesus Christ, whom we serve, the rosary is only one device designed to aid in serice, but it is not, ultimatley, required.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), August 12, 2004.

Yes of course. The rosary is a form of prayer, one of many possible forms of prayer. It would be difficult to get to heaven without prayer, but that particular form of prayer in and of itself is not necessary for salvation.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), August 12, 2004.

"If a person is devout, going to 3-5 Masses per week, goes to confession once a month, and prays some prayers through the day (mental prayers mostly short invocations like "Jesus I love you"...), what do you think?"

I have never heard of someone going to 3-5 Holy Masses a week and going to Confession once a month that didn't pray the Rosary though. What would this person do when a priest gives them a Rosary to pray for pennance?

What the saints have said about the Rosary and the Hail Mary. . . "If you persevere in reciting the Rosary, this will be a most probable sign of your eternal salvation." Bl. Alan de la Roche

"The greatest method of praying is to pray the Rosary." St. Francis de Sales.

"When the Holy Rosary is said well, it gives Jesus and Mary more glory and is more meritorious than any other prayer." St. Louis de Montfort

"The Holy Rosary is the storehouse of countless blessing." Bl. Alan de la Roche

"One day, through the Rosary and the Scapular, Our Lady will save the world." St. Dominic

"Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day be led astray. This is a statement that I would gladly sign with my blood." St. Louis de Montfort

"If you say the Rosary faithfully unto death, I do assure you that, in spite of the gravity of your sins, 'you wil receive a never- fading crown of glory' (1 Peter 5:4)." St. Louis de Montfort

"The Rosary is THE weapon." Blessed Padre Pio

"You must know that when you ‘hail’ Mary, she immediately greets you! Don’t think that she is one of those rude women of whom there are so many - on the contrary, she is utterly courteous and pleasant. If you greet her, she will answer you right away and converse with you!" St. Bernardine of Siena

"Recite your Rosary with faith, with humility, with confidence, and with perseverance." St. Louis de Montfort

"The Rosary is my favourite prayer. A marvellous prayer! Marvellous in its simplicity and in its depth. . .the simple prayer of the Rosary beats the rhythm of human life." Pope John Paul II.

May God give Olly the Grace to start praying with a Rosary.

-- - (David@excite.com), August 12, 2004.

Many inspiring thoughts there. However, we should keep in mind that these testimonials are just that - the personal thoughts and feelings of individual Catholics who found the rosary especially valuable in their own personal prayer lives. Such personal testimonials do not necessarily reflect the official teaching of the Church. Many other saints found other forms of prayer to be of equal or greater value in their own personal lives of prayer. I'm sure the statement by St. Dominic is entirely orthodox when understood as he meant it to be understood - but it is typical of the kind of carelessly worded pronouncement that is quoted by critics of the Church to back up their charges of idolatry. St Louis could validly state that he found the rosary more inspiring than any other prayer, but he had no valid basis for declaring it more "meritorious" than any other prayer. The Church teaches no such thing. And with all due respect to Padre Pio, the Eucharist, not the rosary, is THE weapon!

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), August 12, 2004.

"And with all due respect to Padre Pio, the Eucharist, not the rosary, is THE weapon! "

Yes Paul, but every job needs different tools so to speak, and maybe St. Pio mean't that because he can carry his Rosary in his pocket or in his hands were ever he goes, but you can't carry the Holy Eucharist in your pocket. I don't think St. Pio was putting the Rosary before the Eucharist. If he would of thought this way then he wouldn't of spent up to 18 hours a day hearing Confessions and giving sinners absolution so they can receive the Holy Eucharist in a state of Grace.

Blessed be God a million, million, million times.

-- - (David@excite.com), August 12, 2004.

"Heavenly King, praying the Rosary holds more power than I can imagine. It often saved Christian Europe from Muslim invaders. The Blessed Mother taught three children in Fatima that the Rosary obtains special graces for us, saves sinners from Hell, and protects us from evil spirits. I ask Our Lady to accept my prayers into her Immaculate Heart, multiply their power through the greatness of her love, and then carry Your help to those in need. O Jesus, as I turn to Your Mother for support in prayer, bind us to the golden chain of her most holy Rosary, trusting that she will take care of our souls. Our Lady of the Rosary, pray for us. Amen."

-- - (David@excite.com), August 12, 2004.

MP,

I think one could say you would be in line with church teachings if you said "one could get to Heaven even if they have never *heard* of the rosary.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), August 12, 2004.

After reading the above...can you really argue catholics do not worship mary...and even mention her more than Jesus, the Son of God.

Come on people, why pray to mary, when she was a sinner just like you and I...

nolan

-- nolan (nolannaicker@webmail.co.za), August 12, 2004.

Frank - absolutely!

nolan - no, you could not say that. That is exactly my point. An overly ardent expression of devotion by one Catholic person does not represent "what Catholics do" or "what the Catholic Church teaches". Which is why we have to form our spirituality based on what the Church teaches, not on some pious utterance which some Catholic person may have expressed as a personal opinion.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), August 12, 2004.

"..one could get to Heaven even if they have never *heard* of the rosary. "

Hello, Frank. Long time no see.Hope everything is going well. I agree with what you posted but it doesn't apply to this particular situation. If someone goes to Confession once a month then they are going to be given some Hail Marys to pray for their pennance sooner or later wouldn't you agree? And if somone is participating in "3-5" Holy Masses a week then they certainly are going to *hear* of the Rosary wouldn't you agree? What could this person tell a priest when he gives them a Rosary to pray for pennance?

Our Lady of sorrows pray for us.

God bless you.

-- - (David@excite.com), August 12, 2004.

Bottom line is, the rosary is NOT nessisaey for salvation ,it is a mere meditative TOOL, that CAN be dispenced with. This is not to disparage it, however, Christains living before the rosary was invented where Saved.

Now, thats not to say peopel cant feel some profit form it, but it is not a nessesity, I mean, their is no rosary Sacrament.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), August 12, 2004.

David,

Things have been going fine here, thank you. I hope they are going well with your family as well. I don't suspect that this person would never have heard of the rosary, but to make a point, one *must* say the "Our Father" and the Creed, as they are a part of mass, but even the "Hail Mary" isn't required for our salvation. (Hmm, have to think about it though, we DO say the first part during the gospel reading, and one does sing the Ave Maria now and then).

Actually David, it's kind of funny, IMO. On the one hand, most of me thinks I'm never doing *enough* to be a good person and I definitely can't live up to Christ's example, but on the other, depending on how you look at it, Christ isn't really asking us to do that much. All in one's perspective, I guess. Is the glass half-full or half-empty? Should one dwell on the fact that no matter *how much* one does they'll never be perfect until they despair of the fact, or should one just be happy and trust in the Lord even if it means not achieving what one could? Probably somewhere in the middle, (but I bet that'll frost somebody).

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), August 12, 2004.

"Now, thats not to say peopel cant feel some profit form it, but it is not a nessesity, I mean, their is no rosary Sacrament."

Hello, Zarove

No there is no "rosary Sacrament", but there is the Sacrament of reconcilation. What is one to do if the priest reqires one to pray 5 decades of the rosary as a pennance?

If you refused you'd probably not get absolved from any sins and than if you have mortal sins on your soul and died you would go to hell. You can't get to heaven with mortal sins on your soul.

Pray the Rosary every day.

"..especialy since the rosary was invented int eh Middle Ages a sa Meditation tool.."

Your relegion hasn't been around that long and you think it saves people. Whats that got to do with the high price of fish in China?

God bless you

PS: Thanks Frank. Everything is ok.

-- - (David@excite.com), August 12, 2004.

I was answering your queatio about it beign absolutely nessisary. One can concoevabely never be asked by a proest t pray the rosary.

Likewise, my Faith has existed since the time of Abraham, who first spoke with God. My faith was completed by the Lord Jesus christ on Golgotha nearly 2000 years ago, when he cried " It is Finished!"

We may belong to different branches, not in communion one with another, but we are still ofone faith and one Baptism.

Likewise, no religion, not even Catholsim, saves. It is Giods grace that saves, and the Cahtolic chruch which merley makes this grace available to mankind. Even the churhc itsself says Salvation is by God's Grace onto us sinners, and the churhc merley dissiminates this grace.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), August 12, 2004.

"I was answering your queatio about it beign absolutely nessisary. One can concoevabely never be asked by a proest t pray the rosary. "

Ok I guess this is possible but NOT likely ever going to happen to someone that go to Confession once a month. But MP said, "..forego saying the rosary" which I took to mean skip on purpose because they don't believe in praying to our Lady. I think MP has problems praying to Our Lady which anyone that calls their self a Catholic shouldn't.

Thanks for clarifying to me.

God bless you

-- - (David@excite.com), August 12, 2004.

"And with all due respect to Padre Pio, the Eucharist, not the rosary, is THE weapon!"

There are lots of great weapons, besides the Eucharist and the Rosary. A simple expression of humility can be very powerful, and it's always convenient. You can't always get to a Mass, and you don't always have twenty minutes for a Rosary, but you can always stop what you're doing for a few seconds and say "Lord, I humbly and happily submit to Your Will" or words to that effect. If there is one thing satan cannot tolerate, it's our humility.

-- JJ (nospam@nospam.com), August 12, 2004.

Dear mp,

I too go for Holy Mass may be 2-3 times a week and also for confession once a month and also offer all my thoughts and work to the Lord. But I say the Rosary is the most valuable prayer because while saying it we are able to take part in the life of Christ daily acknowledging His life death and glory and also giving Him Praise.

Do you think by the grace of God you could give it a go? I never used to be able to say even one decade let alone a whole Rosary and it was always with my mind on other things than on the mystery. But as I have written before the Holy Spirit put the Gospel Meditated Rosary book on my path and gave me the insight to memorize it and picture each verse with each bead of the Rosary. I found that my mind does not stray very often and even if it does I am able to get the picture back with the next bead. I am sure you could find one of these books in a catholic book shop. I must say it has to be the one with a verse for each Hail Mary and not the whole mystery. Hope this will help you to give it a chance.

God Bless, Ramanie

-- Ramanie Weerasinghe (lilanw@yahoo.com), August 12, 2004.

"After reading the above...can you really argue catholics do not worship mary...and even mention her more than Jesus, the Son of God. Come on people, why pray to mary, when she was a sinner just like you and I" (nolan) You couldn’t be more wrong Nolan. “Mentioning” someone is not “worshipping” them. I’ve heard protestants mention the name of their favorite preacher more often than they mention Jesus. We are taught to respect the Holy Name of Jesus and not to over-use it unnecessarily. Orthodox Jews avoid ever mentioning the name of God. Do you suppose that they worship someone else? I’m sure you have mentioned the name of your earthly mother or “mom”, many more times than the name of Jesus. The Blessed Virgin Mary is an adoptive Mother to all of us, as her Son is our adoptive Brother. And no, she was NOT “a sinner just like you and me”, as even most non-Catholics agree. And no we don't "pray to mary", or to Mary for that matter. We ask her to pray for us, just as I ask you to pray for me.

Btw would it kill you to give "Mary" and "Catholics" an initital capital letter? No matter what your opinion of both, it's petty and puerile to ignore the rules of grammar.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), August 12, 2004.

"May God give Olly the Grace to start praying with a Rosary. "

Dear David, thankyou for your kind intentions. I used to pray the rosary when I was a Catholic. I had my own set of beads. However, these days I do not. I have a problem with praying to Mary. I know that many Catholics will say "we're not praying to Mary, we're asking Mary to pray for us." Well, I don't want to start up a debate here about all that, but suffice to say, I don't feel comfortable with it. However, I do thank you for your kind words. Catholic or non-Catholic we all need God's grace to pray the prayers that touch His heart.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), August 12, 2004.

Italics off.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), August 13, 2004.

WELL...if you dont feel comfrtable, then find another expresison of prayer. As stated, the rosary isnt mandetory, its just a tool that helps some. If it doesn thelpy uo, find soemthin that does. I never pray the rosary. But then, Im a protestant. Though I do own one I got in Nashvlle... and carry it about, for reasons of a personal nature.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), August 13, 2004.

The Rosary qua Rosary is not necessary for Sanctifying Grace (heh, see how quickly I learn?) but the person deprived of it may have other obstacles which may or may not be dangerous. Knowledgable and freely chosen heresy might be one such obstacle.

-- anon (ymous@god.bless), August 13, 2004.

Dear mp,

I have grown to love the Divine Mercy Chaplet and enjoy praying that. I have a friend who inspired me to begin praying it. They play a beautiful song-version of it at 3pm on my area's Catholic radio station. So if you have a local Catholic radio station, tune in at that time to see if it's played. 3pm is the standard time to pray it, as that was the time of Christ's death. This prayer would be acceptable I think, even for Protestants. As I am converting to Catholic from Protestant, I am still getting used to everything. This prayer is beautiful.

Begin with the Our Father, the Hail Mary and the Apostle's Creed.

Then, on the large bead before each decade:
Eternal Father,
I offer you the Body and Blood,
Soul and Divinity of Your Dearly Beloved Son,
Our Lord, Jesus Christ,
in atonement for our sins
and those of the whole world.

On the ten small beads of each decade, say:
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion,
have mercy on us and on the whole world.

Conclude with (Say 3 Times):
Holy God,
Holy Mighty One,
Holy Immortal One,
have mercy on us
and on the whole world.

Optional Closing Prayer
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless and the treasury of compassion -- inexhaustible, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.

For more information: The Divine Mercy Chaplet.

Also, if you get distracted during prayer, it may help to do as Ramanie suggested and look at the pictures and verses of the life of Christ that are associated with the holy mysteries.

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), August 13, 2004.

Olly,

Your very welcome.

I want you to come home bro. Here is a paragraph from Lumen Gentium that I would like you to read:

"...14. This holy Council first of all turns its attention to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself on scripture and tradition, it teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it.

God bless you.

-- - (David@excite.com), August 14, 2004.

Nice prayer emily... but my Rosary dosnt have large or small beads. what then?

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), August 14, 2004.

Oliver,

I did not realize that you are a former Catholic. In that case I would like to thank you for the charity you show toward Catholics on this forum. I have had many encounters with former Catholics who have been less-than-kind, so your example in that regard is refreshing.

God bless you!

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), August 14, 2004.

Hi Zarove,

I agree it is a beautiful prayer. I think if you look at your rosary, there should be ten beads, then a break, ten more beads, a break, etc. The break is sometimes marked in different ways. On my rosary beads, it is simply an extended length of the chain with a bead of the same size.

If you wish to substitute the "Hail Mary" for something else, perhaps one of the following would be a good alternative.

"Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fire of hell, draw all souls to heaven, especially those who are in most need of your mercy."

Or

"Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen."

Or a Psalm or other Scripture that fits well.

God bless you!

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), August 14, 2004.

Oops I forgot to mention this. I found a site with pictoral instructions on how to pray the Rosary. I think the instructions could be substituted by using the prayers from the Divine Mercy Chaplet that I posted above. This site also contains links at the top to the twenty mysteries that are to be contemplated while praying the rosary. There are Scriptures to go with each, but sadly they are not posted on the site.

How to Pray the Rosary

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), August 14, 2004.

Dear Emily, I just visited the website of How To Pray The Rosary and found it to be very similar to the meditation I use. I have saved it and am going to print the verses for each bead of the mysteries. This way I can give it to those who desire to say the Rosary but find it difficult to concentrate as I did. So thank you so much for showing us the site.

I also like to mention to nolan that through the Rosary we pray asking our Blessed Mother to interceed for us as she was most famed to be the Mother of God Who is Jesus. I just cannot fathom why there is so much said against the Mother of God.

Dear Emily I also use the meditations for the Sorrowful Mysteries when saying the Divine Mercy Chaplet as it helps my concentration.

May God Bless, Ramanie.

-- Ramanie Weerasinghe (lilanw@yahoo.com), August 15, 2004.

Thankyou Emily for your kind words. I might have a lot of points of disagreement with Catholics, but at the end of the day, we're all human beings, and I know that you all love God and desire to be well pleasing to Him.

I think a lot of good can come out of non-agressive discussion. I've really appreciated the spirit of the people in this forum. You are good ambassadors.

May the forum ever continue in a way that will glorify God.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), August 15, 2004.

Protestant brethren are strange. They say Mary is not the Mother of God, because Jesus was just a man when on earth. They say Elizabeth said "mother of my Lord" (Lk.1:43) and not God. But then who is the Lord, but God. Now Jesus himself clears this in the same gospel in Lk.20:43 in reference to a psalm of David, "Now if David calls him 'lord,' how can he be his son." Hence it is clear, he means it is more than just a man, but God. But when they say quote Rom 3:23 to make Mary a sinner, then they say they Jesus is excluded from the verse "all have sinned," because is God. In the last day, their own conscience will judge them as to how deceitful they had been in twisting scriptures, yet claiming love for the Son while kicking his Mother.

Remember, mother and child cannot be separated. Anyone who sets himself against the Woman sets against also her seed (the Christ) as evidenced in both beginning and the end of the Bible (see Gen.3:15 and Rev.12:17) and they are without doubt God's enemies. They are blind like the Jehovah Witnesses who say we love the Father, but don't want to do anything with the Son. You show respect to your sinful mother whose miserable son/daughter you are, but do have a minimum love or respect to mother of the Son of God, whose fruit is the innocent Lamb of God, God made flesh, who God wishes to honor. Remember, the psalm of praise by Elizabeth for Mary is not said by Elizabeth, but the Holy Spirit. I doubt the Holy Spirit praises any other human being in the Bible in a similar way, but the you are above the Holy Spirit. Let your own conscience judge or excuse you on the last day, and you will have no excuse because of all knowledge and skill you have in studying the Bible more than others. So, you can see quite well if you will. Jesus said "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you are saying, 'We see,' so your sin remains.

-- Leslie John (lesliemon@hotmail.com), August 16, 2004.

Praying the rosary with Scripture has been truly eye opening for me. Besides, it helps to keep my mind from wandering ;)

Here's a good link.

Scriptural Rosary

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/rosary/home.html

It helps to turn the verses into a printed document so you can use it during the prayer.

-- Andy S ("ask3332004@yahoo.com"), August 16, 2004.

Leslie,

I think perhaps you meant to post on this thread instead: What did Jesus mean...., as that one seems to fit more in line with your topic.

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), August 16, 2004.

No, Emily I think Leslie’s post is a very good answer to Nolan’s contradictory posts here. Btw Nolan, the Church has not ruled dogmatically on whether Mary died before her Assumption into Heaven or simply fell asleep (The Dormition, as Eastern Christians call it).

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), August 16, 2004.