Marriage tribunals are abusing Church laws regarding annulments.greenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
Annulment Reform Needed, Vatican Official Says Friday, September 17, 2004 12:00:00 AM GMTVatican, Sep. 17 (CWNews.com) - Marriage tribunals in some countries are abusing Church laws regarding annulments, a leading Vatican authority has charged.
Tribunals in some countries (notably the United States) are quick to provide annulments on uncertain grounds, while in other countries the faithful find it difficult to pursue even clear-cut cases of nullity. That was the testimony of Joaquin Llobel, a canon-law instructor at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross and a member of the tribunal for the Apostolic Signatura.
Speaking on Vatican Radio on September 17, Llobel decried in inconsistency of treatment of marriage issues in different Catholic countries. The Vatican should insist on uniform application of Church law, he said.
"Some poor countries in Latin America, Africa, and Asia, do not even have ecclesiastical courts," Llobel observed. In these countries, Catholics "do not have the opportunity to obtain a declaration of nullity-- which is their right," he pointed out. The first step toward reform, therefore, would be to ensure that every diocese gives the faithful a chance to present their cases before a tribunal.
"In other countries, on the other hand, the situation is quite the contrary," Llobel continued. The Vatican tribunal judge cited the "tribunals whose mode of operation has often been criticized by John Paul II, which equate the failure of a marriage with its nullity." Whenever a marriage breaks down, he said, these tribunals take that failure as evidence that a true Christian marriage never existed.
Although Llobel did not point to any particular country as he made this criticism, tribunal officials confirm that the Vatican is particularly concerned about American marriage courts, which frequently provide a finding of nullity on questionable grounds, such as evidence of "immaturity" of one or both partners in the union.
This article courtesy of Catholic World News. To subscribe or for further information, contact subs@cwnews.com or visit www.cwnews.com
-- - (David@excite.com), September 19, 2004
Topping
-- - (David@excite.com), September 19, 2004.
Good post! I prefer my Truth neat.Another great article on this topic just came out in Crisis magazine and is available at the Crisis magazine website. The link is as follows: http://www.crisismagazine.com/julaug2004/hoopes.htm
Believe or not, my marriage was part of the inspiration for the people at Crisis to publish such an article.
Glory be to God.
-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), September 20, 2004.
Thank you David.Just the tip of the corruption iceberg though.
Karl
-- Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), September 20, 2004.
Be wary of Crisis Magazine if what has recently transpired regarding its publisher is true.Karl
-- Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), September 20, 2004.
I have heard that he has two annulments. But he also facilitated publication of the marriage-annulment article. I prefer to take actions as I see them, and not judge the people acting.
-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), September 20, 2004.
From the article Pat referenced, why the does the person think "8" is the magic number when it comes to pre-Cana classes? Why not 3, or 9, or 50? Those classes are like any other classes--you get out of them what you want to get out of them. And, like any other classes, they show an ideal--if all around you real life is not like that, not even a little tiny bit, then how effective are they?I'm not saying that they're of no use at all, but how many people don't go to any pre- marriage classes and manage to stay married to each other just fine? Somehow I doubt that Henry VIII went to any pre-marriage classes anyway....
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), September 20, 2004.
How can the Church help poor countries set up tribunals?By Canon law the tribunal review process should be available to all who need it.
That said, the primary cause of "null marriages" is poor morals and poor education of what a marriage should be.
Work should be done at the front of the porblem not the rear.
Pastoral care should be there for someone who has erred (or who has been the victim of someone else's error).
But, the Church needs to work at the forefront of bringing morality back into vogue.
The Tribunals are trying their best in what is recognizable bad situations.
God bless,
-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), September 22, 2004.
"In other countries, on the other hand, the situation is quite the contrary," Llobel continued. The Vatican tribunal judge cited the "tribunals whose mode of operation has often been criticized by John Paul II, which equate the failure of a marriage with its nullity." Whenever a marriage breaks down, he said, these tribunals take that failure as evidence that a true Christian marriage never existed.Although Llobel did not point to any particular country as he made this criticism, tribunal officials confirm that the Vatican is particularly concerned about American marriage courts, which frequently provide a finding of nullity on questionable grounds, such as evidence of "immaturity" of one or both partners in the union.
-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), September 23, 2004.
The problem underlying all this is the woeful state of Catholic catechisis...most Catholics are actually formed intellectually and morally not by the Gospel or Catholic teaching but by secular culture, movies, music, social norms and expectations...Thus how does the typical Catholic teen view dating, engagement and marriage? From the age-old Catholic view? ha! No, from what they gleen off the tube or monitor, the silver screen or radio.
In the ramp up to the typical wedding more emphasis is placed on the actual party than sacrament, and thus, people tend to not see the forest for the trees.... making annulments that much more necessary as so many people never take the time to actually seek THE SACRAMENT.
They focus on the party (wedding) and honeymoon, and the "lived happily ever after" fairy tale, and not on the idea of being spouses in Christ.
Small wonder then that people thus unprepared for the heavy lifting of marital life suddenly face crisis after crisis and end up realizing that they didn't know what they were getting into in the first place.
Nullity doesn't mean no wedding took place. It means the people who spoke the words didn't actually take vows because they either didn't understand them or didn't consent to them! It's like going through the motions of confession without actually being sorry for one's sin!
To quote Hamlet "words go up, thoughts stay below, words without thought to heaven do not go".
Tighten all the courts as much as possible. That's not going to change the situation of millions of Catholics in name only (CINOs) who have weddings with little or no intention of living holy matrimony as the Church teaches.
-- joe (joestong@yahoo.com), September 23, 2004.
Au Contraire' The problem, as I see it, is not in the minds of the parties. Those minds are sound, if not a bit selfish. Nope. The real problem is in the tribunal judges. The judges don't know the law, thus rendering illegitimate decrees of nullity. Or worse, knowing the law, and disregarding it, they still render illegitimate decrees of nullity.Some blame can be placed on the ordinary that approves the marriage celebration. But not really. The real problem with annulments is that we now have judges that by their action, simply produce a decree when asked for one.
-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), September 23, 2004.
joe, Very well said. Thank you. God bless
-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), September 23, 2004.
Good point, Joe. Although I don't know how one would define a "crisis"--for example, you lose your job, and because of that, your house. Do you whine about it, or do you make lemonade and look into living as a campground host for a while, or travel the country in your car doing casual labor? In other words, I see a lot of people who are homeless because of lack of initiative, not because there isn't work out there. Same applies to a marriage--perhaps marriage preparation should focus on real-life situations. How would you cope with this situation? I bet a lot of couples would be really surprised by the answers, and might not get married after all.Maybe too, if the Church allowed only very simple ceremonies rather than necessarily an entire Mass it might put the focus back where it belongs.
Simple also as in no revealing wedding gowns, or permitting only a best man and maid of honor. I believe sometimes people think, "oh, a Church wedding, I need to invite tons of people, and have a big 'show' for them, etc.", and those who don't think that way are those who elope to Vegas, or get the Justice of the Peace at the courthouse instead. If you included those type of one or two-Catholic marriages, and the percentage of those that last, maybe the annullment stats are not so bad after all....
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), September 23, 2004.
Tribunals in some countries (notably the United States) are quick to provide annulments on uncertain grounds, while in other countries the faithful find it difficult to pursue even clear-cut cases of nullity. That was the testimony of Joaquin Llobel, a canon-law instructor at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross and a member of the tribunal for the Apostolic Signatura.Llobel continued. The Vatican tribunal judge cited the "tribunals whose mode of operation has often been criticized by John Paul II, which equate the failure of a marriage with its nullity." Whenever a marriage breaks down, he said, these tribunals take that failure as evidence that a true Christian marriage never existed.
Although Llobel did not point to any particular country as he made this criticism, tribunal officials confirm that the Vatican is particularly concerned about American marriage courts, which frequently provide a finding of nullity on questionable grounds, such as evidence of "immaturity" of one or both partners in the union.
This article courtesy of Catholic World News. To subscribe or for further information, contact subs@cwnews.com or visit www.cwnews.com.
-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), September 23, 2004.
Well, in some countries the fiesta part of the ceremony is too expensive and so the poor just shack up... but in a Christian wedding, we have the union not just of two individuals but of two families... and hence a celebration is called for. It should take place within the Mass as that is the sacrament by which we unite with Christ and all the imagry is proper for matrimony in which the couple unite with each other through the power of God.In our wedding we had the litany of the saints added as well to invoke their prayers for our union along with the congregation. It's normally done for perpetual vows in religious life and since Matrimony is perpetual, we thought it would be a neat idea and the pastor agreed.
Sure, some families go too overboard with a million dollar wedding. We paid for ours ourselves and kept the whole bill under 10k. Just inviting the immediate family and closest friends to this public act sometimes means inviting 100 people. But families enjoy these reunions and they should!
Our Lord didn't preach small weddings...his first miracle seems to suggest that they should be large and well attended affairs.
-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), September 24, 2004.
But what if there is no family (due to death, say), or they don't get along, or are opposed to the wedding? Not to mention that attend any wedding, and you'll find that most guests aren't really good friends of either the bride or the groom--they're just invited to provide "stuff". That is what today's weddings (church or not) have become...As to THE "wedding feast", it was probably what we call today the "wedding reception"--it was probably not the actual ceremony. Not sure if everyone was invited to both in those days--it is quite common now to invite people to just one or the other.
I would like to see simpler ceremonies for those who want them, without the 6-month wait and the "have to be registered in that particular parish" requirements. I'm not sure that waiting makes any difference, if you truly are committed to each other.
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), September 24, 2004.
Tribunals in some countries (notably the United States) are quick to provide annulments on uncertain grounds, while in other countries the faithful find it difficult to pursue even clear-cut cases of nullity. That was the testimony of Joaquin Llobel, a canon-law instructor at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross and a member of the tribunal for the Apostolic Signatura. Llobel continued. The Vatican tribunal judge cited the "tribunals whose mode of operation has often been criticized by John Paul II, which equate the failure of a marriage with its nullity." Whenever a marriage breaks down, he said, these tribunals take that failure as evidence that a true Christian marriage never existed.Although Llobel did not point to any particular country as he made this criticism, tribunal officials confirm that the Vatican is particularly concerned about American marriage courts, which frequently provide a finding of nullity on questionable grounds, such as evidence of "immaturity" of one or both partners in the union.
This article courtesy of Catholic World News. To subscribe or for further information, contact subs@cwnews.com or visit www.cwnews.com.
-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), September 24, 2004.