A mate of mine is having toruble understadning somethign of my posiiton.

OK, I am opposed morlalyto contraception. However, I do not think it shoudl be illegal, so the mate asusmed I was like Kerry and abortion.

However, her eis my reasoning.

Abortio is Murder, this is why we ought not allow it. it is an infirngment on the basic righ o life of an innocent baby. It causes actual harm.

Contraception, on the other hand, only has potential harm in how peopel percieve sex, and in many cases, such as married couples usign it, the thoughts that lead to the midnset that allows for abortion and usign peopel for sex is abscent. The moral potential is enough of a oncern to be agaisnt the products, but form a elgal standpoint and the basis of human rights, I cnnot impose my morlaity on others. Therefoe, I am not oppsoed ot the sale of contraception leglaly, becauee cntraception in adn of itsself does not lead to actual violation of anothers rights.

Or do I make sence here?

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), October 24, 2004

Answers

A mate of mine is having toruble understadning somethign of my posiiton. OK, I am opposed morlalyto contraception. However, I do not think it shoudl be illegal, so the mate asusmed I was like Kerry and abortion.

However, her eis my reasoning.

Abortio is Murder, this is why we ought not allow it. it is an infirngment on the basic righ o life of an innocent baby. It causes actual harm.

Contraception, on the other hand, only has potential harm in how peopel percieve sex, and in many cases, such as married couples usign it, the thoughts that lead to the midnset that allows for abortion and usign peopel for sex is abscent. The moral potential is enough of a oncern to be agaisnt the products, but form a elgal standpoint and the basis of human rights, I cnnot impose my morlaity on others. Therefoe, I am not oppsoed ot the sale of contraception leglaly, becauee cntraception in adn of itsself does not lead to actual violation of anothers rights.

Or do I make sence here?

-- zarove (zaroff3@juno.com), October 24, 2004.

“cntraception in adn of itsself does not lead to actual violation of anothers rights.”

What about contraceptives (the Pill, IUDs, sex hormone implants etc) which work at least some of the time by preventing a human embryo from planting him/herself in his/her mother’s womb lining – in effect killing him/her? Isn’t that depriving other humans of their rights?

And what about the rights of a wife or husband to have their spouse FULLY given to them in sexual intercourse, including their fertility?

What about the rights of unmarried women to choose not to have sexual intercourse, without being pressured into it by men who insist that as long as contraceptives are available, sex is “safe” and there can be no objection to it?

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), October 24, 2004.

What about contraceptives (the Pill, IUDs, sex hormone implants etc) which work at least some of the time by preventing a human embryo from planting him/herself in his/her mother’s womb lining – in effect killing him/her? Isn’t that depriving other humans of their rights?

{Valid case. was thinkign more along the liens of condomns.}-Zarove

And what about the rights of a wife or husband to have their spouse FULLY given to them in sexual intercourse, including their fertility?

{This is a moral issue, not one set up with legal jurisdiction. The Govenrment has no right to tel us who to love or show affection to.Or how much we giv eof ourselves. That must be freely offeedn and taken.}-Zarove

What about the rights of unmarried women to choose not to have sexual intercourse, without being pressured into it by men who insist that as long as contraceptives are available, sex is “safe” and there can be no objection to it?

{Unless they are raped or coerced, they can say no. rape and coercsion are alreayd illegal... if they give in due to pressure, then it is still not bound for legal discussion.}-Zarove

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), October 24, 2004.

Actually I think that is faulty reasoning. Here's why. The government wants people to use certain behaviors. That is why we have taxes and tax breaks. Why you get a tax break for buying a hybrid car that is because the government is encouraging you to buy that kind of a car. So in the case of contreseption and abortion, the government needs to direct people in a certain way. However, the government isn't just going to ban abortion. That probably wouldn't work. What we need to do is to change societies opinion and then society as a whole will change the governments opinion.

The problem is everyone thinks they have a right to everything. So you need to explain your position so they see why it is wrong. Government can only change if soceity makes it.

-- Scott (papasquat10@hotmail.com), October 25, 2004.

I'm against abortion in ALL cases , except for a few exceptions !!

But to the point:

Well , in my country anticonception is not illegal !!

A child should be a gift , but sometimes , some people sees it not that way !! Responsibility is an important thing !!

Some people have sex just/"pure" for (the) fun (that's also a problem) , or what about prostitutions ??

Or what about anticonception within a marriage ??

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), October 25, 2004.

My only point is that, unike aboetion, ther is no direct legal ground for outlawing OCntraception. Abortion is Murder, contraception isnt. Its only morally wrong, btu is allowed due to personal liberty.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), October 26, 2004.

contraception comes in two classes: those that change the woman's homomonal ecology to the degree that she never ovulates and thus can't get pregnant and those that change the chemical environment in the woman's uterus to the point that any conceived embryo can't attach itself and thus is aborted early on.

Now the first type is a form of pollution - hormones are powerful drugs and the studies are already indicating that contraception is a huge factor in breast cancer as well as other maladies.

So unless you have to take the pill as an adjustment to some medical precondition, otherwise healthy women shouldn't be taking these powerful drugs.

The sin starts with the bad effects these drugs have on the body.

If you add the interpersonal dimension (the embryo) and husband, then the sin is compounded by a woman saying with her body that she wants to be "open" yet saying with her will through the drug that she's really not open to life.

Contraception then affects the attitude of the woman (and the man if he's OK with it). That's where the physical harm to one's physical health becomes willful harm to relationships, closing them off from life.

The second form of contraception is really abortion - but the mentality of being closed to life is the same.

It should be recalled too that when the Anglican Church argued to allow MARRIED couples to use contraception in 1930, thus becoming the first Christian church to do so, their argument was that this would HELP married couples STAY married and they laughted at the Catholics and other Protestants who feared that it would lead to promiscuity, divorce, and ultimately complete hedonism and loss of faith....

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), October 26, 2004.

I too am completely against abortion except in rare extreme cases. I had a friend that was 11 weeks along when she found out that she ahd a fast acting cancer and that if she didn't recieve imeadiate treatment that she would die. They had tried for 2 years to have this baby, but she made the difficult decision to end the pregnancy. Three years later she is cancer free and the mother of a healthy baby girl! Had she have waited to have the baby and then get the treatment then she would not have lived to be a mother. That is a very rare case and one in which I deeply sympathize with the parents. But abortion on demand because you made a mistake or because your contraception failed? That is plainly murder.

Being Southern Baptist growing up, I was never taught that contraception was wrong. It was just a way to control the number of children that you have in the home and that it was OK. I never read or studied what some of those pills I was taking were doing to me. I never realized that some of the drugs I was taking were giving me a "mini" abortion every month. When my son was born I had my tubes tied. I guess God didn't intend for that to work for me......YEP,YA'LL GUESSED! I AM! I will be having a wee one soon !

Thanks and glory be to God !

-- Suzanne (james-betsy@sbcglobal.net), October 26, 2004.

Suzanne, the situation you describe does not even qualify as abortion. The Catholic Church has absolutely no objection to a woman receiving essential life-saving medical treatment, even if the treatment that saves the life of the mother inadvertently and unavoidably causes the death of the unborn child. Abortion is the deliberate destruction of an unborn child. It is a matter of intent.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), October 26, 2004.

1: no one mentioned Condoms... a condomn isnt the same a a pill you know...

2: I am not debatign its mroality, I am debatign the grounds for legally oulawing conraception. Moral issue aside, we are talkign abut the right of the state, not the moral righ of th chuch to oppose Contraception.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), October 26, 2004.

Paul, I never saw it as such either, but she and her husband struggled with it for so long. It really hurt her so badly to have to make that decision, but God's grace has sustained her and given her a new life; a chance to be a mother.....Trust me, there is no greater gift other than the gift of Christ's life given up for us on the cross. Children are God's little miracles. They make a home a home and make life (while sometimes difficult) a joy!

Thanks and glory be to God!

-- Suzanne (james-betsy@sbcglobal.net), October 26, 2004.

Suzanne, congratulations on your baby! I am so excited for you -- what a blessing :) How many children will that make in your family?

God bless,

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), October 26, 2004.

Congratulations Suzanne. What a blessing for you and your whole family!

-- Andy S ("ask3332004@yahoo.com"), October 26, 2004.

Zarove, the State outlaws many things on the grounds that access to them by its citizens would be bad for their physical, mental, or spiritual health, or for society as a whole. I see no valid philosophical reason why a government could not make contraceptives illegal. There are already many legal restrictions on the availability of contraceptives and in the past there were many more.

Suzanne, God bless you and your baby. I too was sterilized many years ago, and after coming to my senses I prayed that God would somehow find a way to give me more children, but it was not to be. Don’t let anyone ever tell you that sterilization and contraception “don’t hurt anybody”.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), October 27, 2004.

I can empathize with Zarove by the fact that abortion is murder while contraception is not. Sperms and ovum have no much value in themselves unless there is union and new life ensues. The wrongness is in the attitude here I guess.

Thanks

-- Leslie John (lesliemon@hotmail.com), October 27, 2004.

Thanks Ya'll! This will make number 5 (unless I get another suprise and end up with a second set of twins LOL!) The baby is due in February. I go for my checkup and second ultrasound tomorrow. I wouldn't mind another set of twins, but then again I am a glutten for punishment (Just Joking! My first set is an absolute blessing!). I will have plenty of "mommas" around to help out. Meg will be almost 16 when the baby gets here and Candie and Millie will be 14 October 30.....That's this week ! I almost forgot !!!!! And then there is the one and only boy! He is 7. I think I want to know what this one is going to be so I will let ya'll know soon as I know !

Steve, I feel so blessed to have found the truth about these things. My mother is a newly retired nurse for our county health dept. She did family planning 4 days a week along with immunizations and WIC checkups and prenatle care. I remember after our first child was born I went to her office and got on the pill. Still ended up pregnant with my twins. Just goes to show how effective the "pill" is! That is part of the problem in today's society. The "pill" is made redily avalible to any girl who wants on it and it has made young girls irresponsible about sexual purity. Our society has conditioned young girls and boys that sex is OK; just get on the "pill", or use a condom, and then when these fail, which they inevidably do, go get an abortion. Ant then parents can not figure out WHY their kids are premiscious. Well, I'll tell ya. Kids are given way too much freedom to do as they please. Whatever happened to girls and boys not being allowed to date until they were 16 or 17? What happened to parents who didn't allow their girls under 16 to be in cars with boys? I have always homeschooled my kids and last year my oldest went to public school for the first time in her life. She came home in shock. She had never heard the language they used before; we never use it and don't watch movies that use it. There were 13 and 14 year old girls dating! My mother had a child patient....yes a little girl CHILD!....12 years old, who is pregnant ans another just gave birth 3 months ago who turned 14 last week. Parents need to be more responsible for their children! They need to teach them to abstain from sex until marriage and learn the firmly say and stick with one word.....NO! My daughters don't even ask.....they know the answer before it is said. When they are 17 I may let them begin to date a boy that I and their daddy approve of. That is another thing parents don't KNOW the boys their daughters are dating. They don't bother to ask.....who are his parents? what do they do? where do they go to church? I want to meet this boy and his parents before you go out..... And curfews? Where did those go? My oldest went to a birthday party for a girlfriend...She had to be home by 10pm. NO LATER! DO not walk in the door at 10:01 or you will be grounded! Simple as that. This is how we stop girls from getting on the "pill" and stop unwanted pregnancies, and stop abortions in America. It all starts at home. I hope all ya'll have a great day today ! God bless!!!

Thanks and glory be to God!

-- Suzanne (james-betsy@sbcglobal.net), October 27, 2004.

I don’t think the wrongness of contraception is in the “attitude”, Leslie. Nor do I think that it “only has POTENTIAL harm”, Zarove. Every act of contraception damages the people who do it and usually others as well. By its very nature it is wrong and harmful, regardless of the "attitude".

Suzanne, you sound like you are a wonderful mother. I hope and pray that your children always make you proud and have the same moral standards as you do.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), October 28, 2004.

Thank you very much, Steve. They are really great kids and because we talk to them often about things such as sex, drugs, drinking..., I know they can be trusted to do what is right. Have a wonderful day !

Thanks and glory be to God!

-- Suzanne (james-betsy@sbcglobal.net), October 28, 2004.

The torbel is we arent discussing the mroality of it, only the legality. Under what legal basis coild they be outlawed?

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), October 28, 2004.

Weren't all forms of artificial contraception illegal under the Compton laws in the past? What was the legal basis then?

-- Andy S ("ask3332004@yahoo.com"), October 28, 2004.