If you are killed in a terror attack by a Radical Muslim, then are you dying for Christ? Or do Radical Muslims not target us because we are mainly Christians but because we are Americans? Are you dying for Christ if you think you are dying for him, or does it depend on why you're being attacked?

-- Cameron (shaolin__phoenix@hotmail.com), November 14, 2004

Answers

cameron, my guess would be that it depends on why you are being attacked. Those who choose to worship in the middle east despite dangers and get killed in a terrorist attack could be considered martyrs, whereas those who died in 9/11 couldnt be considered martyrs in the religious sense, although they are certainly martyrs to the secular society of america.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), November 14, 2004.

Technically, martyrs die as a direct result of their refusal to compromise the truths of the faith. If someone shoots you as you come out of Mass, simply because he hates Catholics, that is not martyrdom in the strict sense. But if he kidnaps you and tells you he is going to shoot you unless you renounce the Catholic faith, you refuse to do so, and he then shoots you, that would qualify as martyrdom. In other words, to be a true martyr you must refuse to compromise the faith in the face of a known threat to your life. You must express, through word or action, a willingness to sacrifice your life rather than compromise your faith.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (2473) presents it this way ...

"Martyrdom is the supreme witness given to the truth of the faith; it means bearing witness even unto death. The martyr bears witness to Christ who died and rose, to whom he is united by charity. He bears witness to the truth of the faith and of Christian doctrine. He endures death through an act of fortitude."

In otherwords, true martyrdom involves a conscious act by the martyr, not just by the killer.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 14, 2004.

I would add, be careful NOT to misuse the word “martyr” the way it has been misused by some military groups, copied by the mass media, to mean someone who is killed fighting in a war or terrorist action against people of other religions. To be a martyr, you must never seek death, nor seek to kill others, but must try to avoid being put to death if at all possible without renouncing your faith. Only when you are presented with only two possible choices, renouncing your faith or being put to death, may you choose death and be considered a martyr.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), November 14, 2004.

Steve's right. Most of us in the USA aren't faced with the prospect of dying for the faith - although there's no reason why the current social situation has to remain this way. Already people face the prospect of loosing their jobs or chances of raises by being good Catholics (it's enough to recall how many people get brow beaten and loose chances of tenure at colleges for refusing to wear the homosexual pin on Gay Pride week).

Those people face a "white" martyrdom. Last elections showcased the ad hominem vitriol the Left seethed with over their "enemies" here in red-state America. Shots were fired, offices stormed and ransacked, people roughed up and property destroyed all before the election when they thought they were going to win!

Every other 1st world nation has gone through anti-Catholic purges in the last 250 years, so it would be naive to think it can't happen here.

If we don't work to evangelize those who are falling into vice and viciousness now through our words, we may be faced with the prospect of having to choose between flight, fight, or martyrdom in a decade or two.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), November 15, 2004.

If we don't work to evangelize those who are falling into vice and viciousness now through our words, we may be faced with the prospect of having to choose between flight, fight, or martyrdom in a decade or two.

amen joe, your words ring true to me, because they echo what i have felt for so long: we are headed for a showdown, is our side going to be ready? as catholics we number one fifth of the worlds population, but that still means we're outnumbered 4 to 1. we NEED to stand firm and resolute with our fellow christians and even religious non christians against the rising tide of militant secularism that even now is pushing to knock us off the stage entirely. we have got to push back

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), November 15, 2004.

How about LIVING for Christ? OR mabey defending yourself or fighting for Christ? Why should we always have to adopt the pussy little spineless victim pose when were attacked or targeted by evil types. What good is turning the other cheek if someones got a gun at your head and going to pull the trigger?

By acting like a completer pussy when youre attacked and getting all philosophical and sh*t just makes your enemy laugh at you even harder. How bout showing a bit of backbone for Christ?

-- .... (ohYe@h.umhuh), November 29, 2004.

You don't think that the martyrs showed some "backbone" for Christ?? Just who do you suppose might have shown more?

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 29, 2004.

When a man is captured by evil doers who are threatening to kill him because of his faith (but promise to release him if he renounces it), he has essentially 3 choices: to die a martyr's death, to apostasize, and to resist in the hope of escaping (with the chance he'll get killed in the process).

Most of us are not in that circumstance. So we have other duties - such as to flee impending trouble, or stay away from dangerous areas... but if we are responsible for the safety of others (wives, children) then we are not allowed to choose martyrdom except as a last resort.

In most cases we are duty bound to two choices: flight or fight.

So let's suppose I hear on the radio some evening that a band of Muslim extremists are roaring up US 1 shooting as they come... I have a choice - I can grab the wife and kids, jump in the car and head for the hills, or I can grab the rifle and set up an ambush to take as many of them out as I can.

OK, far fetched scenerio.

Most of the time threats to life or limb are simply due to criminals not religiously motivated psychopaths. At 2am when you hear someone kicking in your front door, you have two choices to make - since you are essentially trapped in your own home, you can either resist passively (very dangerous) or resist actively (still dangerous).

But what you don't have a right to do is leave your wife and children behind or unprotected.

I'm all for dialogue and diplomacy. But not at 2am with someone breaking and entering. My "dialogue" would consist in a stern and loud notification that "police are called and I'm armed". Diplomacy would consist in "get out of the house now or prepare to meet Mr. Mossberg".

If they left on their own I'd let them go... and pray for their conversion. If they didn't leave but didn't come up the stairs either I wouldn't go down after them....if they came up the stairs, regardless of my threats, they'd not clear the landing - of course, I'd offer free first aid and call an ambulance too since they're the criminal, not me.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), November 29, 2004.

"So let's suppose I hear on the radio some evening that a band of Muslim extremists are roaring up US 1 shooting as they come... I have a choice - I can grab the wife and kids, jump in the car and head for the hills, or I can grab the rifle and set up an ambush to take as many of them out as I can."

Joe, you seem to have forgotten that we have police and defence forces whose JOB it is to defend us from armed attackers and if necessary "take them out". Or does your "scenario" assume that every police officer and soldier in the State has already been killed? Leave it to the professionals unless they can't possibly help.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), November 29, 2004.