the bible says:'call noone as your holy father exept me(god)'

isn't it wrong the when catholic call the pope 'the holy father'?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.com), December 27, 2004

Answers

No. It isn't wrong.

What is wrong is what you said that the Bible says ("holy father").

Before comeing here to attack Catholicism, SDQA, you should have looked up the verse to find out what Jesus actually said. Then you should have realized that it was not meant to be taken literally, as is proved by other verses in the New Testament.

If you are here with anger, SDQA, to cause us problems instead of to learn, kindly leave us in peace.

-- (tired@of.nonsense), December 27, 2004.

Hey sdqa, the Bible also says to pray in your closet, do you? I used to be anti-Catholicism you know, I despised Catholicism and thought it was SO unbiblical. But, it's the most Biblical form of Christianity there is. It IS Christianity and you should learn about it before coming here to judge us or attack us. Check this site out if you want to learn or at least now what Catholicism teaches. http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZINDEX.HTM

God give you peace my friend:)

-- Jason (Enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), December 27, 2004.

Paul writes "... if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I BECAME YOUR FATHER through the gospel. (1 Corinthians 4:15) Is Paul, in this scriptural text, writing contrary to the teachings of Jesus? Peter writes "She who is in Babylon, chosen together with you, sends you greetings, and so does MY SON, Mark". (1 Peter 5:13) Here Peter claims to be "father" to Mark. Is he writing contrary to the teachings of Jesus? Obviously not. The apostles understood the words of Jesus as they were meant to be understood, as a proscription against giving to men any honor that belongs to God alone. They did not make simplistic, uneducated guesses about the meaning of Christ's words as modern fundamentalists do. Besides, if you are going to take a simplistic literalist approach to Matt 23:9, why pick on the Pope or Catholic priests? The verse says "call NO MAN ON EARTH your father". If you take this passage literally, what do you call your own male parent?? If you call him your father, then you have no grounds for criticism of the Church's title for its priests, the same title the apostles themselves used to designate spiritual pastors.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 27, 2004.

Paul M., excellent answer. I would like to add this verse, quoted by St. Stephen before his martyrdom.

Acts 7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com"), December 27, 2004.

sdqa,

You are referring to Matthew 23:8-10. Here is the full text.

"8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ." - NIV translation

To show that it's not wrong to call a religious leader "father", I've pointed out a few of the other verses that refer to, or call someone "father" in apparent contradiction of Christ's words.

Acts 22:1 (Peter addresses "fathers"); Acts 26:6 (Peter refers to his "fathers"); Romans 4:12 (Abraham is referred to as a father of Christians), Romans 4:16-18 (Abraham is referred to as father of Christians), Romans 9:10 (Isaac is called a father of Christians)

And 1 Corinthians 4:14-16 where Paul calls himself "father" of the Corinthians.

14 I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you, as my dear children. 15 Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

This is the same sense in which Catholics call the Pope and priests father. If you look at the context of the whole chapter of Matthew 23, Jesus was warning us and the apostles against becoming hypocrites like teachers of the law and Pharisees who loved to lord their titles over others. It was a lesson in humility and service, not a lesson in what titles should be prohibited.

Do some religious leaders act like the Pharisees? Certainly, but there are many who act like Jesus too. Their title is just that, a title. It's what's in the hearts of "teachers" and "fathers" that Jesus was warning us about. Be humble, for no man is equal to God the Father.

In fact, not many are willing to point out that Jesus also said in Matthew 23:2-3 that "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

Someone else might be able to offer greater wisdom into all this. But that's how I read this passage.

-- Andy S ("ask3332004@yahoo.com"), December 27, 2004.

I wish there was a way to edit or delete my reply after posting. I apologize for repeating what others have already said. Folks posted as I typed. I like the other posts better than mine.

-- Andy S ("ask3332004@yahoo.com"), December 27, 2004.

Don't worry, Andy. I thought yours was an excellent response also.

-- ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), December 27, 2004.

its a translational issue, sdqa, which has been discussed many times in the past. the word for father used in the verse you mention is ABBA, which translates roughly to father, although it has a truer meaning of divine father. English, however, doesnt have multiple words to distinguish one type of father from another. thus the english language is insufficient to fully describe the mysteries of faith, although no human language can be considered sufficient to contain the nature of God in its linguistic forms.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), December 27, 2004.

but why do you call the pope actually 'the holy father'?

first of all he's not our father or anyone's father

and second,he isn't holy,he's just a man like you and me

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.com), December 27, 2004.

He is the spiritual father of the Church, just as St. Paul recognized he was the spiritual father of those whose pastoral care was his God-given responsibility. God has revealed Himself to us as Father. It is only natural therefore that the one man God personally appointed to be chief pastor and shepherd of the universal Church, and his successors, would and should be thought of in terms of the ministry they are called to, that of spiritual father, Vicar of the One Father who is in heaven. That's where the title "pope" came from. It is one of the few official terms used by the Church which rose up from the grass roots level, rather than being handed down from the hierarchy. The people called the Vicar of Christ "papa", recognizing his spiritual fatherhood over them, and the term "pope" is derived therefrom.

The office of Pope is holy, just as the Church is holy, because they are divine in origin, established directly by Jesus Christ, Who is God. This doesn't mean that a man who holds this holy office is automatically a person of great personal holiness, any more than every member of the holy Church is automatically a person of great holiness. Certainly most Popes have been men of obvious holiness, none more so than our present Holy Father. A few men who have held this holy office have been poor examples of personal holiness. And even the holiest of Popes are still human and still sinners. No- one claims otherwise.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 27, 2004.