On the advice of our own Mr Motowheels (Martin) I bought the Pit Bull SS front stand just before Christmas for my F4.. thought I’d report in with an update and feedback. FYI... Ferrachi dicked me around for months and never did deliver the stand I had ordered from them so I cancelled and the Casoli stand looked kinda cheesy although many seem to like them...everything else was just too pricy...

As some of you may recall.. I had originally purchased the MV designated front stand from Pit Bull and my bike fell off that stand TWICE causing some body damage. Pit Bull was notified of the problem and I thought they had pulled them out of their product line for redesign, but I just heard from a customer who bought one last week for his F4... I just advised him to return it or suffer possible expensive consequences.

Here are a couple of pics of the SS stand... As Mr Moto said.. They had been using the SS stand for a long time with zero probs but IMHO.. it’s still not ideal and I would advise against anyone else choosing this one if you are looking for something that really fits for F4 forks. As you can see by the first pic.. the red rubber coated pins slide under the caliper holder and unlike the MV designated stand, the SS version does have a side plate that should, in theory, prevent the lower fork leg from turning, but.... the pins do NOT slide under far enough to eliminate paranoia.. I adjusted them as far in as they would go and they are still at least 3/4"-1 full inch too short to be 100% secure.

I also tried something else..Upon seeing the poor fit of the SS pins under the calipers, I ordered the Pit Bull [b]10mm spool kit[/b] as I thought I could replace the lower caliper bolts with a spool and longer screws hoping that I could lift the bike via this method. FYI.. the SS stand can be used using either spools or the rubber pins by simply flipping the lift mechanism over. Great design for a bike that it actually fits... NOT for the MV.. As you can see by the second pic.. when the spools are installed, the lift will NOT reach in to grab both of them.. In other words.. the lift is too wide.. there is a full 1" of space on one side.. Guess I’ll return the spool kit for a refund.

So there you have it... I am using the SS stand and plan on keeping it until I find something better. and actually available... The SS Pit Bull might be as secure as Martin says, but I don’t feel good about it. Hell... this is a PITA.. I may have to simply design one for myself...

Guess this qualifies as my last gripe of 2004!!

http://www.piratesK12site.net/SSpitz2.jpg

http://www.piratesK12site.net/SSpitz1.jpg

-- Jerry (Pirate) Finley (Pirate@acelink.net), December 27, 2004

Answers

All who may be listening...

I have to say a bit about "Mr Pirate's" issues.

My first hand experiences regarding some of those who worked to help Mr. "P" at his request...

Martin, top notch, first hand experience, honest advice, without personal business agenda. MOTOWHEELS, great products, an absolute service first company. I have completed many transactions on a wide range of parts and upgrades on two F4's. These guys are aces and worth your trust, dollars and business.

Ferrachi, yeah, yeah plan ahead. Truth of the matter is that ALL people and companies (Pirate's little "concern" included) have supply and distribution issued with parts and accessories for this bike. To suggest otherwise may mean that there is a personal business agenda at work?

Fronts stands...learn to use them BEFORE you drop your bike...twice. Use them with appropriate care and caution, after all YOU are hoisting a work of art and a darn fine motorcycle on the thing. :)

Another front stand option: works for me (LOT's of use...NEVER without a rear stand in place) never droped a bike (3 years, knocking wood as I type) used for front end sevice used at track days on irregular, unlevel surfaces by myself, no assistance no instruction/s needed

FG Special Parts MAT No. A17124 TEL: 051856216 - 051856260 FAX: 051856218 internet: fgspecialparts.it email: market@fgspecialparts.it

Call Martin and if he can't get it for you he will send you somewhere that can. Or trust his advice and buy the Pitbull SS and learn how he uses it.

I just hate to hear of someone's bad luck, personal paranoia, or impossible expectation, being passed off to those who have with good will and faith offered their experience and advice.

Sincerely Offered...

Scot Hennon Mooresville, NC

-- Scot Hennon (smhennon@alltel.net), December 28, 2004.

Scott.. Hmm... not sure what you are implying, but let me clarify a few things..

First... I appreciate all the feedback I got concerning stands and I thanked most in a previous post and/or PM’s... especially Martin's. He's a good guy and I value his opinion. He knows much more than me about these bikes and I admit it. I weighed all the options and I took his advice and I do NOT regret it. I bought the SS stand and will use it until I find something better. He said it's worked for them and I trust his judgement. For what it’s worth I, too have bought from MOTOWHEELS and will continue to. First rate operation.. great service. I was just adding that while the SS Pit Bull may work fine with the F4.. it's definitely not designed for it and I said so..He would probably agree. You can see by my pics that it doesn't look sturdy.. Like myself, he's in the biz and like myself tries his best to be "agenda-less"...and just one of the guys. Sometimes a fine line, but I don't think anyone out there could accuse either of us of blatantly or otherwise hawking our wares..

as for Ferrachi.. IMHO... Their service sucks. It's as simple as that. I've heard similar stories from a dozen others. I bought a Power Commander from them a while back and they were apathetic to the point of arrogance when my installer called for assistance. Eevn my installer who has been in the biz for 40 years couldn’t believe it. When I ordered this stand from them they told me 4 weeks max which is acceptable..and expected. Then when it didn't arrive they refused to return 5 or 6 calls over a couple of weeks. After another month I had to resort to e-mailing the head of the company. The next day I got a response that they had NO idea when I'd get it nor would they call the manufacturer to give me a delivery date..!!?? What the f#@*!? As I am in the biz.. I can say this with confidence... If I treated ANY customer like that I would not only expect them to NEVER do biz with us again, but I'd expect them to flame me all over the internet and I would deserve it.. I stand by my comments about them and their service or lack thereof.

as for your comment.."Fronts stands...learn to use them BEFORE you drop your bike"... That pisses me off, bucko.. My bike fell NOT because I didn't know how to use the stand.. it fell because the stand was designed poorly. I couldn’t figure out what the problem was until it fell the second time. I actually thought I had used it incorrectly at first..

The manufacturer didn't know their was a design problem until I pointed it out to him. After an in-depth discussion with Pitt Bull’s owner explaining the workings of the MV's unusual lower fork legs, he agreed it was absolutely necessary to redesign the MV designated lift. As I also am a designer, I know that sometimes you can miss things during R &D testing and he obviously did on this one lift. I didn't even ask them to cover damages, but rather ate it and instead offered suggestions on how to improve the lift. Professional courtesy.. Charlie thanked me for bringing it to their attention without raising a hell storm like 99.9% of the populace would have done..

Perhaps I’m a bit touchy but it sounded to me like you were inferring I had an agenda... If that’s what you think.. come right out and say it, bro... and perhaps elaborate...

I thought my post on the SS stand would be helpful to those looking for the “perfect” MV stand which the SS is not. I did NOT say that it wouldn’t work and work well.. as Martin suggested. Rant over..

-- Jerry (Pirate) Finley (Pirate@acelink.net), December 28, 2004.

Adjust the stand so the red vertical plate rests against the fork lower on both sides. Ours fits right against the fork lower-- the fork won't twist unless you are using a sledge hammer... If yours does not fit snuggly--make a spacer that will take up the space. You can use a rubber exhaust donut and slide it onto the round cylinder in a pinch.

We've done more than a few mods on our Motowheels MV 750 and swapped many sets of tires using that stand over the last 3 years. The stand works with the new radial mount brembo brakes too.

I just used it the other day to put on the Adjustable bar risers. We were sitting on the bike to adjust the bars...

-- martin (martin@motowheels.com), December 29, 2004.

Ok...

We agree that FBF leaves us all wanting better, next.

As to your concluding thoughts... In elaboration, I believe that you, on this list and others, promote yourself in a less than professional way. Specifically using what you may deem as a short coming of others in an attempt to put you and your "operation" in a better light.

I have done business with you and have, in the realtively speaking, far past, purchased from you. I no long put my dollars or my patience or my voice to the services you provide. More to the point, I have, and will, promote and step up for, any who provide service in good will such as MOTOWHEELS. Especially when from my vantage they are getting a raw deal. (Though your second round of comment does sound a bit apologetic/defensive with regard to the first...)

As to your comment regarding my post of "Fronts stands...learn to use them BEFORE you drop your bike". The actual quote IS .."Front stands...learn to use them BEFORE you drop your bike...TWICE". That pisses you off, why? If it was once Jerry then maybe you have a bone to pick with me. After all things like this happen. But as I said, twice with the same stand is ALL on you.

"I didn't even ask them to cover damages, but rather ate it and instead offered suggestions on how to improve the lift. Professional courtesy..". What a guy? Good on you? Be pissed all you like. Your are still making "the drop" someone or something elses fault. Rather than all of this, learn how to take more care than was taken?

Reread your post? As you are a designer, to not recognize "poor design" seems a short coming in itself. Especially since the fault of the equipment was such that the bike fell. Twice... To have used such an unstable piece of equipment as to result in damage, twice, leads to so many questions it just goes on and on.

My bet is that while you may have found that 99.9% of the populace "raises hell" with you and your service, it may also be that Charlie knows how to handle a "professional" customer, vaildate their concern and input, use what you can and take the next call. Sounds from your own post that the stand is still for sale even though the seller "agreed it was absolutely necessary to redesign the MV designated lift". Is he still selling them despite your enlightenment or is he rather doing so to spite your input? My bet, Pitbull looked the stand over, maybe even tested it themselves and could not figure out the reported "failure". I guess any of us could call Charlie and get his take on the matter?

In your response you post... "I did NOT say that it wouldn’t work and work well.."

Yet your original posting on this matter you write "...it’s still not ideal and I would advise against anyone else choosing this one if you are looking for something that really fits for F4 forks."

So which of these statement will you standby? Both? In my world Jerry "not ideal" and "advise against" are NOT equal to "work and work well" Is it in yours? Gray this up all you like I won't buy it. You brought the sellers into this for no reason other than your own.

You blatantly and otherwise hawk your wares. You have an agenda to that end at the expence of others. You are touchy.

And yet you persist... "I thought my post on the SS stand would be helpful to those looking for the “perfect” MV stand which the SS is not."

If that's the case why bring ANY of the businesses or people from which you purchased into the issue at all if not to either warn others off or turn them on? It would have been so easy to report on the stands, their pros and cons, without any mention of their sources if that were your true purpose. Especially since you are making no positive recommendation and since, you have claimed to have valued these folk's service and advice.

You did ask...

Sincerely,

Scot Hennon Mooresville, NC

-- Scot Hennon (smhennon@alltel.net), December 29, 2004.

Scot.. Sounds like you have some serious issues there fella that only a therapist could straighten out.. Rarely does anyone challenge my integrity...but being early and full of my morning caffiene..

First... while everyone has a right to their opinion.. even you... You say I don’t “promote” myself in a professional way”.... As far as I know.. I don’t “promote myself in ANY way.. I’m here and on every other chat site as a rider only.. spewing questions and/or opinions. I have no agenda. I’m not selling anything. I don’t mention that I’m in the biz unless it’s pertinent. I don’t care if you or anyone else likes me, although I would like others to think I contribute rather than just being a cyber dumbass with a bone to pick.

My opinions of shortcomings of a badly designed product were meant to be HELPFUL. I know I like to hear other’s opinions. It seems to me that you just don’t like to hear MY opinions... and that’s fine.

As for MOTOWHEELS... I am clueless as to what you are referring to when you say... “More to the point, I have, and will, promote and step up for, any who provide service in good will such as MOTOWHEELS. Especially when from my vantage they are getting a raw deal”

A raw deal from who? I haven’t even mentioned them? They don’t manufacture or even sell the SS stand as far as I know. My complaint is about ONE Pit Bull stand purchased from Pit Bull.. Comprende?

As far as doing biz with us.. I could care less if you spend your bucks with us or mainland China. If you don’t need what we offer.. That’s cool. If you don’t like me personally for whatever reason.. that’s also cool. By your odd attitude I would imagine that I wouldn’t like you personally either.. Tomorrow the sun will shine.. Move on.

And yes.. it does piss me off that you inferred I was to blame for my bike falling.... “Your are still making "the drop" someone or something else fault.” It WAS someone else’s fault! Geezz. For some reason you are NOT comprehending the fact that the MV designated stand was poorly designed. It’s NOT my opinion.. it’s a fact and Charlie agreed... I was the guy that discovered the problem and brought it to the attention of the manufacturer who is now redesigning it. THATS why it fell TWICE.. It was the stand, stupid..Have you even been diagnosed with ADD?

Thanks to Martin, I now have another Pit Bull stand that works better.

You know.. this is getting tiresome. Ordinarily I love to banter with enlightened individuals...and most here fit into that category... but you obviously have a bone to pick with ME for whatever reason and I find rationalizing myself to you a waste of my time. I’ll leave it up to those who have read my original post and your personal slam.. er rebuttal against me to discern who was trying to be helpful and who was just being a dick. and that’s all I have to say on this subject.

Thanks again to Martin for the advice.. I will use the SS stand like you suggest.

Best wishes to all (or all but one) for a very safe and Happy New Year... Pirate out.

-- Jerry (Pirate) Finley (Pirate@acelink.net), December 29, 2004.

yep about what I have come to expect from you... :( ...too bad.

Good Luck, folks like you need it.

Scot

-- Scot Hennon (smhennon@alltel.net), December 29, 2004.

..oh Dear, gentlemen, back away from those keyboards...

-- Bill (rgsnumber19-general@yahoo.com), December 29, 2004.

Only way I've heard of the Forklift Front stand being used on a Augusta is from under the calipers...as the bottom of the Augusta forks is not like other forks. Under the calipers there is a flat surface that the dual pegs of the Forklift stand can sit under. As for using the SS REAR stand under the forks...the method would actually work...but the SS is a rear stand, not a front stand and therefore is wider to accomodate rear swingarms, not front forks. If you don't like using the Forklift Front under the calipers then a narrow SS rear stand would work based on Jerry's pictures. The narrow version is about 1-1 1/2" narrower than the regular width rear stands. Hope that helps a bit. Later.

-- George Hoffman (FMF_Hazard@hotmail.com), March 02, 2005.