I heard two people debating the other day about the Tsunami? One was claiming he 'felt no need to help them since we already have so many problems in America and that Preident Bush had absolutley no right to write such a large check to send over there to help them. If so then there should be no problems in America.' That person believed in God but did not attend any church. The other person was a church atending Christian that replied 'it doesn't matter. These people are in need of help and as a christian I must help and feel others should.'

She brought in God so the man replied 'It makes you wonder if this was God's hand since so-and-so(I forgot the name of one of the places that got leveled) was the worlds center for imoral sex. A place where men paid money to some orginization to have sex with children and much more. Also how most of those places are radical islams who hate Christians and some time in the recent past slaughtered one million Chinese Catholics trying to prevent the preaching of Christianity. He admitted there were many innocent people there, but insisted that most of the people are the worlds and Christianity's enemy!'

The woman said he 'had a good point but still believed we should help these people from suffering no matter who they are.'

Any commets on this?

-- Jason (Enchanted fire5@yahoo.com), January 02, 2005

Answers

Jason, as Christians we are called to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us, and show charity to all people. Regardless of what God chooses to do or allow in this sinful world, we are still to show God's love to all. This is my take. God bless,

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com"), January 02, 2005.

Emily makes good sense. The present tragedy ought to unite all peoples including God's faithful in corporal and spiritual works of mercy. Debate shouldn't be the result of human suffering unless we make it more bearable for at least a few. In our coming year and onward, let's pray to Our Holy Saviour and invoke the intercession of one saint, probably the most influential one in all the far east. That would be Mother Theresa of Calcutta. A modern Catholic soul who chose to sacrifice herself living in the Black Hole.

Dearest Mother Theresa, you have seen the face of Our Divine Saviour shining upon yours; give us the benefit of your holy intercession. Pray for your devoted children in the East and West. All of us need help badly. Not only those Christians suffering today, but all who are yet to be saved. Amen!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 02, 2005.

Hello Jason!

The man who thought it was a waste of time and money to help those folks perhaps has not contemplated the meaning of Jesus' words in Matthew 6, and Paul's words in Romans 14: "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate and despise you, bless those that curse you."

Sadly, those who judge others so thoughtlessly will be liable to be judged thoughtlessly by others.

Keep up the faith, Jason! We do right because it is right, no matter what others think.

-- Michael (edwardsronning@prodigy.net), January 02, 2005.

Besides that, "divine punishment" is not the only Christian or Catholic way to understand the Tsunami--and it fails to account for the fact that so many of the victims were children.

There is no evil out of which God can not bring good, even one as awful and horrifying as this.

People have assumed that the province of evil and sin lies strictly in the realm of the individual, but this is not the case; sin rips apart not only invididuals, and not only societies, but it taints the very ground. Sin set man against nature, and nature against man. The Original Sin not only banished Adam and Eve from the garden--it poisoned nature itself, so that Adam ('man') must labor for his bread.

Science cannot fathom the idea that natural disasters have anything to do with moral evil; but by faith we know that Satan is still prince of this world which is passing away; sometimes, indeed, it seems the Earth itself sins, corrupted by our original sin.

Our hope in the Ressurrection is not only for the renewal and glorification of our own bodies, but the redemption of all of creation. As the Psalm says, "Seas and rivers, bless the Lord!" We pray not only for Heaven, but a "New heaven and a New Earth" (mentioned in Isaiah and Revelation). And we need a "new earth" because, on this one, nature itself is not pure.

This is not to deny other ways of making sense of the tsunami--or simply not trying to. But we believe that God does not predestine anyone to Hell (the heresy of the Jansenists and of Calvin).

-- anon (ymous@god.bless), January 02, 2005.

Yes I know we are to help these poor people and my wife and have been at our church raising money for them. I just wanted to see what you guys would say about that conversation.

God give you peace.

-- Jason (Enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), January 02, 2005.

I hate to be a wet towel. (Oh who am I kidding--I love to be a wet towel). But "beenthere," the forum has rules, and you're breaking them. There are a number of Protestants who post here respectfully. You should do the same.

Otherwise the Mods will take to deleting your posts and laughing at your protests of censorship. :)

-- anon (ymous@god.bless), January 02, 2005.

Yes, as with all of your questions we've certainly "been there done that" before my friend.

http://www.domestic- church.com/CONTENT.DCC/19980101/ARTICLES/SAINTS.HTM

Peace!

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), January 02, 2005.

Aww, look at the wittle Internet martyr.

-- anon (ymous@god.bless), January 02, 2005.

sdqa,

i pity you, truly, because your faith is twisted and confused like a stunted tree which has been denied the light of Divine Inspiration for far too long.

you say that the saints cannot pray for us because they are dead... but there is no death for those who are true followers of the Lord. there is only life ever lasting. so you have a judgement call to make, do the saints have the eternal life that God promised, are they alive today and praying for us (as God commanded us all to pray for one another) or is God a liar? is there no eternal life that God Himself promised us? is there no chance to continue to pray for others after we die?

i pity you because you believe that after we die we are somehow stripped of compassion, of understanding, of love, and of our ability to pray. what a horrible afterlife, if i were a member of your church i wouldnt want a salvation that had no communion with God in prayer. i'll stick to my catholic faith which tells me that if/when i am saved i will be united with God in heaven in unceasing prayer and communion.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), January 02, 2005.

Jason, the conversation you overhead reminds of a remark a so-called Christian woman (boss) of mine said after Waco, Texas. "Good," she said "it's about time." My mouth hit the floor, as did all of my co- workers, stunned that ANYONE, much less a Christian, could such a thing!

It really makes you wonder, though, doesn't it!

Gail

-- Gail (Rothfarms@socket.net), January 02, 2005.

Been there says" When we die--we are in Christ until the resurrection of our bodies at the end of this age.

Eternal life is true."

But then directly contradicts him/herself by saying "Praying to the DEAD, even the DEAD in Christ, is unnecessary since we can go straight to God in Jesus name ourselves."

You see, Been There, we do not "pray to the dead," but rather we ask for the intercessions of our beloved brothers and sisters whom are WITH Christ, ALIVE, and who have received the gift of ETERNAL LIFE!

Your statements not only contract themselves but show that you have a lack of understanding of the faith. Furthermore, this is not the appropriate thread in which to launch your "statements." If you wish to know what we believe, and why we believe it, please start an appropriate thread.

Gail

-- Gail (Rothfarms@socket.net), January 02, 2005.

I guess I missed it because I see no posts written by "beenthere." I guess he/she spoke nonesene and it got deleted;)

-- Jason (Enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), January 04, 2005.