Since I and many others continue to see Valid conversations being over-run and destroyed by NEEDLESS bickering over NON-Related issues.

As of Today by the Infallibility of my Keytronics keyboard I hereby decree that hence forth ANY post or Rebuttal which is NOT directly related to the topic at hand be submitted to "The Eugene" Thread. Followed by a simple response line in the topic thread which ONLY states. ?"insert Name:? go to "The Eugene".

It is further Decreed that even us mere simpletons have the ability to think on our own, Thereby relieving the self appointed defenders of the Catholic Faith on this forum free to converse like ladies and gentleman of good will and intelligence.

Any one violating this Doctrine let him be anathema! (except me of course!)

Have a Problem Take it to "The Eugene"

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), January 26, 2005

Answers

So is THIS "The Eugene thread"?

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), January 26, 2005.

Official "cut and Paste" address!

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00Cilr

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), January 26, 2005.

ridiculous, michael g. the very aggressive nature of this thread itself shows that your words ring hollow with the sound of a hypocrit.

First, Eugene (among several of the other so-called "defenders of the catholic faith") are longstanding and well respected members of this forum who have been here long enough to have a unique role, affective relationships with others who have been here, and have earned a measurable leeway in their posts, especially because most of these have more knowledge of catholicism in their pinky fingers than ten Christmas/Easter catholics combined. Respect your "elders" (at least in when it comes to forum age).

Second, this is a space to provide catholics with a place to debate/discuss catholic doctrine and what it entails. saying that conservative catholics who are "defenders of the catholic faith" should not be allowed to discourse freely is really contrary, then, to the mission of this forum. While i'm sure we'd all love to have everyone agree with the lengthy diatribes that we all compose, in a real world that just isnt the case. you don't here these defenders of the catholic faith singling out people on ridiculous threads like this, so why should you do something which lacks such christian charity? accept the fact that this is a catholic debate/discussion forum and get over yourself.

Finally, sweeping changes don't happen here. some people come, some people go... it is the way it has always been. Simply proclaiming, I'm michael G and this is how i say we have to do things is, to be frank, rather insulting to members who may have been posting here for as many as... what is it? four years? I myself am about to move into my third year posting here, and i still don't make ridiculous demands of the forum.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), January 26, 2005.

I have to be careful, there are two Michaels posting lately. I keep confusing the two.

The ''-- Michael (edwardsronning@prodigy.net)'', is one I admire. Our other Michael, Michael G., hasn't yet distinguished himself, but I'm sure he's going to soon. Isn't he the new convert from Lutheranism? Yes--

My Dear Michael G; You may initiate threads here for your personal pleasure and satisfaction. Nobody will object. If something you say is incorrect, it's likely the error will be immediately pointed out. Your honest and correct posts are welcome. No one wants to make you unhappy without cause.

If in the course of this month's long arguments the posts I contributed made you angry, I'm sorry. I wasn't aiming to irritate our more sensitive bystanders-- unless they have been unkind to the Catholic Church in some unjust way. I don't think you've been unkind. Not to the Catholic Church.

Even so, I see you find me boring. You wish you could send me away; as if a thread with my name on its title were the Galapagos Islands; or the dark side of the moon. Let Eugene and those he talks to, --Go there. They bore Michael G. And, I understand, Michael. You don't have to say it. I'm not interesting, and I ought to let others post, I talk too much. I'll start cutting back right away.

Tonight I'll talk to the Christ Child. Baby Jesus; who is loving and patient; and He takes me very seriously. If He falls asleep listening to my old voice, I'll tell Him, ''Jesus Dear; You make me love you all the more sleeping so peacefully. I put everybody to sleep, really. But not everybody loves me as much as you. Thank you; You made me so happy today. Until tomorrow, Divine Child. Amen.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 27, 2005.

I love you Eugene! Actually I find most of what you post to be of high interest. Even if I don't always agree, I respect what you have to add to this forum. I haven't been here long myself, but I have learned a great deal about out Catholic faith listening to men like Eugene and Paul and others......Thank you.

Thanks and glory be to God !

-- suzanne (james-betsy@sbcglobal.net), January 27, 2005.

Thank you, Suzanne; for me and the others as well. Sometimes we continue on a thread for long periods of time and naturally go off on tangents that everyone doesn't care for. Normally I quit posting on the less challenging discussions. Yet, there come some threads on which a crucial problem brings foolish or even dangerous commentary. It becomes impossible for somebody like me, for Frank, or Paul --a number of experienced Catholics here-- to tolerate. It demands intervention for the sake of all our faithful. (You know many are lurking while discussion goes on.)

Somebody risks going on through prolonged arguments and keeps on receiving obnoxious or trivial replies; either from opponents and/or from good Catholics. Meanwhile the sensitive ones gross out, they wish it would stop. You should have been here when the pedophile priests scandalized so many Catholics. You never saw such animosity.

We must have faith and not falter during critical discussions. It's a sign of our full commitment to Jesus Christ, really. He warns us not to be lukewarm, and to persevere. And if we get our feelings hurt, that's no problem. We follow Him, as we carry our cross.

God bless you, Suzanne; with all His love may He grant you peace and joyful faith to carry on.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 27, 2005.

"this is a space to provide catholics with a place to debate/discuss catholic doctrine and what it entails. saying that conservative catholics who are "defenders of the catholic faith" should not be allowed to discourse freely is really contrary, then, to the mission of this forum."

Paul-- Tell me does this sound like it promotes "debate/discuss catholic doctrine and what it entails" ?

"It's plain to observe. I can elaborate, but I decline to serve you. Go on and observe this man's views. On Catholicism today. On the Popes. On the saints.- -I speak by no authority of mine; but the Church's. Smith himself made clear: when the Church is placed in danger, whoever has knowledge of their faith is to defend her from attack. I do it because I can. I judge the message equitably. The devil is behind it. The devil hates our Holy Father, hates us and the Catholic Church. So; he spreads doubt and dissent. He works against the Church. Thus, I determine the messenger serves the devil. --I didn't bluff. He's a heretic, and you can't dispute it seeing his works here. -- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net "

From what I have seen it does just the opposite, it prevent views good or bad from being approached in a rational manner. Instead it closes the door to understanding in greater detail what the topic at hand is about and creates childish feeding frenzy. It also prevents the writers views from being fully expressed because one person deems it Anti-Catholic instead of questioning the point in question (this would be the debate portion). You might find that many views are not brought out which would Aid the topic and Actually prove to be very supportive of the Church's position even if they sound contrary at first. Or in helping someone else understand the position (This would be the Discussion part).

Now maybe I am wrong and I give people to much credit for being able to think without being told what to believe, or not being able to see through the BS that someone might inject into a conversation. Do I believe Eugene has knowledge which would aid in a topic? Absolutely, I believe everyone ones has some knowledge which is useful. no matter how opposing it may seem.

But of course this is merely the opinion of a simpleton.

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), January 27, 2005.

Michael:
I believe exactly what I said in the quote you pasted there. It's my considered opinion.

I've had no cause to call you a simpleton. You could have attempted to calm my fears about the heretic; or dispute my considered opinion ***questioning the point in question (this would be the debate portion).***

Instead you want us to call a halt; because it disappoints you. Personally, I don't know what to expect next from you.

Next time I say something that doesn't sit well with you, say it to me. Come to the defense of the heretic; since you think these feeble attempts of mine just block: (This would be the Discussion part). Don't be intellectually lazy. Apparently God gave you intelligence. Use it for something better than sarcasm.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 27, 2005.

Eugene,

can't you say something nice to Michael G?

what harm might it do?

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), January 27, 2005.

Quick, submit Ian's post to "The Eugene" thread before we get dangerously off course. Or are we in the Eugene thread? I'm still not clear. These Catholic discussions are confusing sometimes.

-- Brian Crane (brian.crane@cranemills.com), January 27, 2005.

Try ask jsus soemtimes... the topic is often just a prelude to whatever fancy strikes us a the time...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), January 27, 2005.

"Where does it stand in Scripture that a harlot can become a virgin by issuing a decree?" -- Jakob Boehme

-- (JB_@A._), January 27, 2005.

Try ask jsus soemtimes... the topic is often just a prelude to whatever fancy strikes us a the time...

kinda like how protestant view religion?... (just joking, of course, couldnt resist at all)

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), January 28, 2005.

Eugene, I have my differences with you but I could never accuse you of being boring. Adamant, yes, sometimes overly harsh, but always stimulating and thought-provoking and sometimes profound.

Michael, I think the real problem is not those of eclectic interests like Eugene, but those who try to subvert every second thread to their "pet" topic.

Threads sometimes turn into a discussion of something totally unrelated to the original post/title. When this looks like becoming lengthy, could I suggest that post-ers start a new thread? For the benefit of those with 20th century equipment who take ages to download a huge thread with a title they are interested in, only to find 90% of it is about something else. And those who are interested in the second topic maybe never get to see it because they don't want to download a long thread with a title which doesn't interest them.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), January 28, 2005.

I appreciate that, Steve. There were some individuals far back who expressed alarm because we had some no- holds-barred arguments on this forum. It was ''shameful and unchristian'' of us; we weren't welcome anymore.

My reply said something like this: ''Just because we're faithful Catholics doesn't make a pilgrimage site or holy shrine out of this place.''

There's a time & place for bold expression. I look at Saint John the Baptist; crossing paths with Herod and Herodias. He was a battler. That's how God made some of us. Good Christians don't retreat when they defend the faith; we ''Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.'' --Or they once DID.

But also, when it's not our kind of argument, we should switch to another thread and discuss flower arrangement for the holy altar. --To each his own. God bless the whole lot of us in this forum.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 28, 2005.

My how times change! I rember about 4 years ago Chris Coose started a thread like this, and Eugene threatened Frank and made him delete it.

Blessing to all. God bless you jake.

-- - (David@excite.com), January 28, 2005.

Please explain.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 28, 2005.