The Pope plans new voices to choose his successor

From Richard Owen in Rome

THE Pope, who returned to the Vatican from hospital yesterday, is planning to create a new batch of cardinals to bring fresh blood into the body that will elect his successor.

Vatican insiders say a consistory is being planned for June. The move would help to counter suggestions that the Pope, 84, is no longer in charge of the Roman Catholic Church.

Eager to demonstrate his full recovery from breathing problems, the Pope was driven last night the 5½km from the Gemelli hospital to the Vatican in his Popemobile instead of the expected car with darkened windows.

Plastic sheeting was hung from the hospital entrance to the Popemobile to protect him from the evening chill.

At the Vatican hundreds of relieved well wishers waved and shouted greetings as the white-robed Pope, flanked by outriders, drove across a floodlit St Peter’s Square. The Pope, looking alert, waved back.

The planned consistory would be attended by cardinals from across the world and offers an opportunity for papal contenders to assess each other and be assessed.

Candidates for a red hat include Archbishop Michael Fitzgerald, head of the Council for Inter-religious Dialogue, the most senior Briton in the Vatican. Also in the running is Monsignor Diarmuid Martin, who took over last year as Archbishop of Dublin from Cardinal Desmond O’Connell. Monsigor O’Connell resigned after allegations of failure to deal with paedophilia scandals. There are 120 cardinals aged under 80 eligible to elect the next Pope.

-- Patrick (patrickleungnufc@yahoo.com.hk), February 11, 2005

Answers

Maybe I'm being a cynic when I say this, but sometimes I wonder if the best move would be to disenfranchise the numerous European and American sees that think their occupant has a right to the cardinal's hat, insult or no insult, and create a body of cardinals that accurately reflects the fact that Europe has abandoned the Church and that America isn't far behind.

-- Michael Healy, Jr. (temuchinkhakhan@yahoo.com), February 12, 2005.

Thu 10 Feb 2005

We have a big problem inside the church.

10:21am (UK) Catholic Archbishop Was A Red Agent

A Roman Catholic archbishop was an agent for Slovakia’s communist- era secret service, a government official said today.

Jan Sokol, now the head of the Bratislava-Trnava archdiocese, was registered by the secret service as an agent in spring of 1989, just months before he was appointed archbishop in then-communist Czechoslovakia, said Miroslav Lehky of the Institute of the National Memory.

Prior to that, the service had marked Sokol as a ”candidate for cooperation” for many years, Lehky said.

Lehky said the files covering the western part of Slovakia and the capital, Bratislava – including the one on Sokol – will be released to the public within months. He said the list of the service’s cooperators “was trustworthy.”

He added only additional research would revel more details about the alleged cooperation.

Under communism, which ended in late 1989, Slovakia was part of Czechoslovakia. The country split peacefully into the Czech Republic and Slovakia in 1993.

Sokol, now 71, would not comment on the alleged cooperation with the service but will issue a written statement later this month, his secretary Tibor Hajdu said .

-- Paula (Paula@victory.com), February 12, 2005.

Hmmm,

''Maybe I'm being a cynic when I say --I wonder if the best move would be to disenfranchise the numerous European and American sees that think their occupant has a right to the cardinal's hat, create a body of cardinals that accurately reflects the fact that Europe has abandoned the Church and that America isn't far behind.''

YES, Pure cynicism; and never very catholic, to my mind. Not even a mention of God, the Holy Spirit, or holiness. Just cynicism; as if this were some political plum somebody should or shouldn't be ''eligible'' to eat. Yuck.

Or,

''We have a big problem inside the church.

10:21am (UK) Catholic Archbishop Was A Red Agent.''--

Look out. He might blow up the Vatican! Hahah!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 12, 2005.

Allow me to rephrase. Disenfranchise all the European and American sees that think they deserve the cardinal's hat and restructure the body of cardinals such that it more accurately reflects the Church's catholicity.

-- Michael Healy, Jr. (temuchinkhakhan@yahoo.com), February 12, 2005.

Michael, isn’t that exactly what the Popes have been doing to the College of Cardinals ever since the time of Pius XII? Several European and American cities which had been usually headed by a Cardinal now don’t have one, while the number of Cardinals in the Third World has grown exponentially, including some from quite minor dioceses. I doubt that we’ll see any new Cardinals created for at least a year or two. JP2’s practice has been to wait until the number of eligible papal electors falls well below 120 before creating new Cardinals.

Paula, you’re getting way way ahead of yourself. Ok so the Communists identified him in their internal memos as someone who could possibly be influenced to cooperate with them. I see no evidence that this was even true, let alone that he did actually cooperate with them, let alone that this putative cooperation was against the interests of the Church, let alone that it was on a vast enough scale to constitute “a big problem inside the Church”.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 12, 2005.

Let us know if and when the Holy Spirit takes your advice. ''Disenfranchize ! ! ! '' The prelature of the Catholic Church isn't about Ford or General Motors. Or a Burger King. You need an education in theology, Mr. Healey.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 12, 2005.

"Just cynicism; as if this were some political plum somebody should or shouldn't be ''eligible'' to eat. Yuck."

Of course no politics involved with the selection of the next Pope. Perhaps we should inform the Cardinals who have been jocking for the position for some time now.

Well when this time comes I suggest contacting the book makers in Vegas for the odds and play it from there. (now that IS cynicism).

But who knows MAYBE on a long shot they will allow the Holy Spirit to actually guide them on this decision. Any takers?

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 12, 2005.

“Cardinals who have been jocking for the position” Get real Michael. No Cardinal in his right mind would actually SEEK to be Pope. What would you prefer, the hardest job in world? or to be a cardinal (or retired cardinal) still given deference etc but without the world's constant focus on you, having to make the hard decisions and take the flak that a Pope does? Those chosen Pope in modern times have invariably been reluctant to accept it, believing they were unworthy, but have accepted only because they chose to acceptthe will of the Holy Spirit.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 12, 2005.

''But who knows MAYBE on a long shot they will allow the Holy Spirit to actually guide them on this decision. Any takers?

-- Michael G.''

That's a blasphemous little quip, Michael. Somehow I'd taken you for a pious Catholic. I was wrong. The next Pope isn't even in sight and already you cast doubt and aspersions on him. He has no way of knowing how you feel. The Holy Spirit however, is aware of this insult.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 12, 2005.

Eugene and Steve,

I wish I could say I was wrong BUT... Sorry guys!

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 13, 2005.

I'll say it for you. WRONG.

Quisling cynics like you aren't so rare, Michael. You can find a lot of them on the Net, and some are smart. But not you.

Go get your own Pope. You have no use for any Collegial College. Nor for the Holy Spirit. Save yourself and let the Church fend for herself.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 13, 2005.

Eugene;

Surely you can kill the messanger, but that does NOT kill the message!

As far as intelligence, certainly most if not all are smarter then I am, However that does NOT change the truth!

However I am happy that it only took 455 years before God raised a Pope outside of Italy. Or maybe he did before but some refused him? I am not sure but I will await an answer from thoses who are much smarter then I am.

But when this time comes for which I hope is still a long ways off, we shall know.

Will ambition or God inspire them to choose the right man?

http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/32866.html

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 13, 2005.

Is this what you call a message? We ''killed'' you; by explaining about the Collegial College and the Holy Spirit? Of which you apparently know nothing?

When a faithful Catholic jumps at any message coming out of England, regarding those Papists and Romists, (the Pope has horns, dont't ya know, Guv?) I feel sorry for him. Might as well believe any WASP here in the U.S., and their anti-catholic grapevine. Nothing but impartial opinions there, either. And-- if you disagree with them, they say you shot the messenger.

You are simply grieving the Holy Spirit, Michael. Please try not to infect others with your idiocy?

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 13, 2005.

Eugene,

For someone with such divinely appointed knowledge of everything.. surely you are well aware that this conversation has and continues to occur in every Theological college in the US as well as throughout the world.

In fact if you ask your Priest or Bishop , if they have every engaged in such a conversation on this topic I suspect that the HONEST answer would be Yes.

Eugene, why do you think the Pope has made such strides to bring in as many conservative Cardinals as he can, or updated the rules pertaining the selection of the next Pope.

I have absolutely no doubts about the Holy Spirit, However the Holy Spirit must still rely on the Human Interface we call Cardinals.

If this process was purely Spiritual and that All the Cardinals were equally Faithful, then NEVER would Black smoke arise NEVER!

But for now Eugene please don't allow your strings to become tangled, and when the time comes Pray heavily that the Holy Spirit maintains the Absolute tightest control over the process. Even if it means we go through one Pope every 30 days.

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 13, 2005.

Steve, Why would any Cardinal want to become Pope?

People strive for Power and Control, trust me on one thing Clergy are NO different. How many Liberals would LOVE to have that spot. Look at all of the democratic contenders from the past election, I would bet that everyone of them would give up any thought of the Whitehouse if the could be Pope!

They could Give away everything of the Church and destroy any future of the Church, They could endorse abortion, homosexual marriage and relations (i.e.) everything the Church opposes.

Steve, are you aware that when the Pope takes office all of the money is transferred into his name? How many short sight do-gooders would dump all that money on a single feel good project and destroy or sharply curtail any future working to perpetuate the Churches Mission. Or how much influence the Pope has in World Affairs, I would bet he could get through to another world leader faster then Bush or someone else could.

Just something to think about.

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 13, 2005.

You have several of your strings hopelessly tangled, Michael. And, no matter what deep thinking might go on in many theological colleges, the outcome isn't decided amongst plebes. We count on the Holy Spirit, not controversies in the academies.

I can't prove this. All I truly CAN do (I've done it with your posts) is denounce cynicism and disloyalty to the Church. Your disloyalty and carping-- even BEFORE any new Pope is selected. You've convicted yourself, My Friend.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 13, 2005.

Dear oh dear, I thought you might have been honestly looking for truth, Michael; but it turns out you’re just yet another in the long line of hate-filled anti-Catholic bigots mouthing the same old vicious calumnies.

Just in case any ignorant impressionable person is reading Michael’s garbage, I will explain the facts which every educated person knows:

1. Catholic beliefs are NOT decided on the whim of the current Pope. Catholic dogmas cannot ever change. It is not possible for a Pope to change them. It is totally impossible for any Pope to make abortion or homosexual “marriage” permissible.

2. There are no piles of money in the Vatican. The Church’s property most certainly does NOT become the Pope’s personal property. He is merely the chief steward of the Church’s property, and directs its use for the purposes of spreading the gospel and works of charity.

3. “how much influence the Pope has in World Affairs”. Hmm I think it’s approximately 300 years since the last time the government of any significant country decided to change its policies because of something a Pope said or did.

4. “The pope has more power and control than the White House”. Hmm I think the people of Iraq would disagree.

Yeah I know, his accusations are ridiculous, but the sad thing is there are quite a few people out there who actually believe this sort of rubbish.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 13, 2005.

Wow I can just feel the Catholic love in this forum. Open minded discussion between adults about the realities of the world. No wonder the more serious Catholic discussions wind up over in the Ask Jesus forum.

Steve first off you should really not use deception by presenting something as a quote which was not quoted. I will check because you may have hit a double header on 2 of the 10 commandments. In fact I suspect on your post you probably hit on more then 2. But you are forgiven. As are you Eugene.

Steve and Eugene I suspect at this point in your lives it is probably best for the both of you to continue to keep your heads in the sand, because it is obvious that certain realities would leave you quite unsettled.

However you guys tomorrow when each of you go outside and look down the street and it appears to end, this is called the horizon and I promise you it is NOT the edge of earth and you will not fall off. And I promise you that there really is a Whole Round World it is no longer flat. Perhaps each of you should explore it sometime and see what is really out there.

Well either way when you guys denounce facts you simply Announce your own ignorance. Congratulations YOU have been announced!

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 14, 2005.

Hmm you seem to have fallen OFF the edge, Michael. I don’t need or want your forgiveness. I said your words are full of hate and they are.

As for my supposed “deception by presenting something as a quote which was not quoted” -?? Are you possibly referring to the fact that I condensed your “People strive for Power and Control, trust me on one thing Clergy are NO different. How many Liberals would LOVE to have that spot. Look at all of the democratic contenders from the past election, I would bet that everyone of them would give up any thought of the Whitehouse if the could be Pope!” into “The pope has more power and control than the White House”? If by some weird twist of logic you claim that your former statement does NOT imply the latter, please explain HOW SO, for all of us who are too dim to see “the realities of the world”.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 14, 2005.

Dear Michael: ''The Catholic love in this forum'' ought to work both ways. You're breathless with excitement at the graft and dishonesty our Holy See definitely shows you. Gosh; all of us here should have been bowled over. We have it straight from a loving Catholic; above reproach. Your love is absolutely radiant, and we aren't requiting it at all.

We're stupid; why argue there is no conspiracy in Rome? Gore Vidal and Malachi Martin wouldn't lie to you, would they? we should be eating out of your hand!

Michael's a Catholic who tells us Oh so tersely, ''Love me, love my dog,-- His name is anti-christ.''

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 14, 2005.