DOES THE CHURCH TEACH GAY PEOPLE ARE EVIL?

-- PUNKER (greg_pisahov@hotmail.com), February 13, 2005

Answers

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality is a sin just like blasphemy or adultry or saying the Lord's name in vain is a sin. No different. It's not like the Church is out to get those homosexuals. It just won't call what is sinful an ok practice like many other "Christian" churchs do or the media. The RCC does not follow the crowd and the journey is long and hard, but oh so BEAUTIFUL! :)

-- Jason (enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), February 13, 2005.

It is the homosexual behavior that is sinful and not the inclination.

-- DJ (newfiedufie@msn.com), February 13, 2005.

Allow me to rephrase that. It is the dwelling on the inclination and the homosexual behavior that is sinful and not just the inclination itself.

-- DJ (newfiedufie@msn.com), February 13, 2005.

The Catholic Church is also one of the few places where people with homosexual tendencies who recognize such tendencies as psychologically abnormal and spiritually harmful can find genuine help and support. See www.couragerc.net

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 13, 2005.

DJ, what do you mean by saying that "dwelling on the inclination" is sinful? What, in fact, comprises "dwelling on" it? And where, in Church documents, is "dwelling on the inclination" listed as sinful?

Or are you referring to intentional, lustful, homosexual thoughts? If so, I agree with you that those would be sinful, but I would not refer to those as "dwelling on the inclination." Someone could, without sinning at all, "dwell on" (deeply ponder) one's own, or another's, homosexual "inclination."

-- (B@Chaste.edu), February 13, 2005.

being tempted is not a sin (incling) but actign on it is!

-- kt (jc_died_4_me@hotmail.com), February 16, 2005.

If so, I agree with you that those would be sinful, but I would not refer to those as "dwelling on the inclination."

Inclined to homosexual attraction is not sinful. When this inclination leads to one dwelling on the act, it becomes sinful. I'm inclined to be attracted to woman. But i'm not sinning unless this inclination is inhabited(Dwell) with lust and sexual desires.

Someone could, without sinning at all, "dwell on" (deeply ponder) one's own, or another's, homosexual "inclination."

When i say "dwell on" i'm speaking about abiding or continuing in the immoral thoughts that could come about with the inclination. Dwelling to me is pondering deeply in the inclination, with that of the heart.

Or are you referring to intentional, lustful, homosexual thoughts? Yes

-- DJ (newfiedufie@msn.com), February 16, 2005.

Yea, I think everyone is in accord on this one. The actual thought is not a sin, it is a temptation. However, acting on it, or enjoying those thoughts and lusting in them is a sin.

Tim Kirschenheiter

-- Tim K. (tk4386@juno.com), February 16, 2005.

On the purely moral level;
Just the gays' simple caring for another man-- without tending to actions; is already against God's commandments. Only complete indifference, a male for another male, a female for the other female; indifference as a love objest; --is moral. Men shouldn't even LOOK at other men; any more than a married man looks at another woman, other than his wife. They cannot be loved in a moral way.

No love except purely Christian, platonic love can morally be exchanged between same-sex parties. it's immoral.

I feel this as my personal observation. It may be unfeasible or overly strict. However, we must face some unpleasant things about the human soul. Affection has consequences. We can offer everybody respect; but affection and love have strict limits. Our souls are always in the balance.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 16, 2005.

Eugene or everyone else ,

I'm not talking about morals or anti-morals or whatever , but .... ,

I've got a question !! Gay people , why they do exist ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 16, 2005.

I'll tell you what the Catholic Church teaches us, Laurent. Gay people, as well as straight people, fat people, skinny people, men women and children; ALL:

Are created to love God and to serve Him; and after this life to love and serve Him in the coming life everlasting.

If anybody tells you GAYS aren't able to love and serve God just as faithfully as you and me; they LIE. It's up to every individual; no matter what the other ones in a group are doing.

Gays can love and serve God; nothing about their sexual orientation keeps them from it. ONLY SIN. If out of fifty gay men-- one is sorry for his sins and learns to follow God's commandments, and love Him. --It doesn't matter to God what the other 49 gays have done. God will love that man just as much as He loves me and you. And that gay man will someday be in heaven with God.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 16, 2005.

So , now , I still don't know the reason !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 16, 2005.

Gays are created to love and serve God.

That's why they were given life. And you too.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 16, 2005.

Now I still don't know the main-reason !!

Some humans say , they are/commit a sin , so than why they do exit ??

Or why do people & nature exist ??

Or suppose , we hetero were not allowed to have sex , married or not , why do we live ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 16, 2005.

Don't be stupid. Laurent. You ask why gays are born? To love and serve God. That's the indisputable reason. Everything else is optional, including our sex. If a heterosexual wants to be sinful, he can be sinful. If a gay wants to be chaste, he can be. All we are asked to be is God's servants; His holy people.

If you had asked: ''Why was a Christian in ancient Rome born; just to die in the Colosseum, cruified, or killed by lions; he might as well NOT be born ??? --No.

Even if he was martyred; it was serving God. All else became unimportant in that life. He fulfilled what God made him for; to love and serve Him. That is the great mystery of this life. --Life was given me to CHALLENGE me, not to make me comfortable. Gays have been challenged. Just as much as a martyr is challenged. ---- ---------Choose God; choose everlasting life. God makes you choose.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 16, 2005.

i think laurent is asking what actually causes men to be attracted to other men and women to other women

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

Laurent/sdqa, that’s a question for psychologists, not the Church, to answer. Freud I think viewed it as a temporary adolescent phase which some people become stuck in permanently. Certainly it’s obvious that many people develop homosexual inclinations after some deeply traumatic sex-related event or factor in their upbringing or youth. Others deliberately “choose” or "discover" it as just another sexual perversion after they become bored with other perversions. But in a few cases the cause is not obvious without analysing what goes in inside the person’s mind.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 16, 2005.

--''. . . i think laurent is asking what actually causes men to be attracted to other men and women to other women --''

Of course he would ask that. But that's not our question. Is the Church calling gays evil? That's all we need to know.

No-- Gays do not have to be evil. I tried to explain this above. The Church has only this to teach: God detests homosexual ACTS. All sexual abandon between men and men; women with women. God condemned it once and for all. No matter what the cause was of the tendency. The only thing the Catholic Church says about this problem is, God forbids the practice. God doesn't condemn any PERSON, as if he had committed a sin-- Unless and until he DOES commit one.

The Church tells us what offends God; and the Church will never mislead us.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 17, 2005.

it seems that sometimes laurent and sdqa can't wrap their minds around certain ideas so i will try to provide an example that they can hopefully understand.

i displayed the tendency to steal when i was five years old = i displayed homosexual tendencies when i was five years old

i stole something when i was 13 years old = i committed an act of homosexuality when i was 13 years old

when i was 20 i accepted Christ

when i was 22 God changed my heart and i don't steal anymore = when i was 22 God changed my heart and i don't commit homosexual acts anymore

sometimes i feel the urge to steal but i don't because i know that it is wrong = sometimes i feel the urge to be with a same sex person but i don't because i know that it is wrong

i really want to steal something because i am in need but i don't because God will provide = i really need to have sex but i don't because God will provide (a partner of the opposite sex or the ability to abstain)

ok i messed up, i stole again.. but God was merciful and forgave me = ok i messed up, i had sex again... but God was merciful and forgave me

i realize that i don't have to be what my flesh wants me to be, i can control myself because self control is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and when i feel those urges again, I pray that God will comfort me and lead me to the way out of the temptation. God loves me for me, he doesn't love me for the things i do.

so to answer your question, God doesn't say that all gay people are evil. all sin is evil, and everyone has sin, but God still loves us. even if it could be proved that a person is "born gay" it doesn't mean that a person should act gay. just like if it could be proved that a person is "born a criminal" it doesn't mean that a person should act like a criminal.

-- Rina (emailmarina@yahoo.com), February 17, 2005.

Rina ,

Homosexuality & stealing something , I see your point , but what you did , was not stealing !! You did something , which you regretted later !!

Of course he would ask that. But that's not our question. Is the Church calling gays evil? That's all we need to know.

Eugene , I wanna know both , so I can see why & what !!

Maybe a though question for you , why do hetero's exist ??

Or why make people war ?? Why people don't agree with eachother , why do they have another opinion about (almost) everything ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 17, 2005.

but can god condemn someone who doesn't not believe and is also not convinced/aware his homosexuality is an evil act/sin?(according to you catholics)

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 17, 2005.

There is a difference (understood by Catholic ethics) between culpability - which is subjective, and actual evil/harm, which is objective.

So for example, the case of canibals living in Papua New Guinea. They sincerely believe that killing and eating other human beings is OK.

Now, objectively what they do is evil and thus, harmful to them but subjectively, as far as moral guilt goes, they're innocent.

In most American's experience the difference is seen in the cases of unintentional homicide - such as killing someone by accident.

Killing a human being is evil. But not everyone who accidentally runs someone over in a car is GUILTY.

So you may be innocent of murder...but still have done grave harm to someone.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), February 17, 2005.

''can god condemn someone who doesn't believe and is also not convinced/aware his homosexuality is an evil act/sin?(according to you catholics) God created everyone, believer and unbeliever. He will judge everyone; and evil is punished after this lifetime.

Unbelievers are by definition already condemned. They do not acknowledge God their Creator. He will not bring them to salvation unless they believe in Him first.

If another evil is added, the vice of depravity and corruption, much less will these sinners believe. They choose to die in sin.

They won't be excused. All of these men and women received warnings. The latest severe warning is AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. --They KNOW His Will and refuse Him.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 17, 2005.

but eugene it's not they fault that they just simply can't believe in him,i red this morning the bible,the complete gospel of mark and some parts of matthew and luke,i found some very nice things in it,but i simply can't believe that jesus was the son of god and that he really had to die for our sins so we can be saved...etc,is it my fault i don't believe this? i don't think so,i just simply can't,it doesn't seem credible to me,just how you simply can't stop from believe because it seems so credible to you and you're simply convinced that that's the truth

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 17, 2005.

Why not just beleive he moral and ethical techigns then? "Love God, and Love your Neighbour' are the two greatet ocmmandments, the rest is commentary on how...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 17, 2005.

"is it my fault i don't believe this? i don't think so,i just simply can't,it doesn't seem credible to me,just how you simply can't stop from believe because it seems so credible to you and you're simply convinced that that's the truth"

Is it a non-believer's fault if they do not believe? If they have been made aware of the Truth and deny it, then yes it is their fault.

What you desrcibe as a complete inability to believe could be many things, such as pride, fear, cowardice, but everyone is able to believe and everyone is able to not believe. I myself had to deal with the pride issue and am still dealing with it.

It is humbling to admit we are not perfect and must submit to a higher authority. Many people's pride keeps them away from believing. It happened to me for many years.

Tim Kirschenheiter

-- Tim K. (tk4386@juno.com), February 17, 2005.

“but what you did , was not stealing !! You did something , which you regretted later !!” (Laurent)

What are you talking about? Of course it was stealing. She was sorry for it later and God forgave her. But it was still stealing. Just like if someone committed a homosexual act and then was sorry for it later and God forgave them, it was still a homosexual act. Just that it's been forgiven. But it still happened.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 17, 2005.