ex-Catholic (now Christian) and Christian - Can we receive a Catholic blessing in our Christian ceremony.greenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
HiI was risen in a Catholic background, went to a Catholic school for 13 years, was baptised, had first communion and did my 4 year confirmation course (although I could not attend the final ceremony since I moved to England).
Me and my fiance are getting married on the 12th of March 05, we are having a Christian ceremony. This has resulted in unbelieveable fights in my family, who all believe that I have been brainwashed and converted into something else. I consider my catholic walk as a part of my spiritual growth, but I call myself a Christian now. However, my parents seem to be close to a serious health problem if I am persistant. I was wondering what would be the possibilities of having a catholic blessing, considering that there is not that much time left, and that I live in Canada and he is in London (UK), and what would be the process of this.
(By the way, the wedding is in London)
Thank you very much in advance
-- katy (katyusk@yahoo.com), February 13, 2005
If neither of you considers yourself Catholic, or plans on living as Catholic, what would be the point of a "Catholic blessing"? In any case, the Catholic Church does not dispense "blessings" to mollify the Catholic relatives of non-Catholics marrying outside the Catholic Church. Incidentally Katy, there is no fuller or more genuine way to be Christian than to be Catholic, a member of the one Church Christ Himself founded for you.
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 14, 2005.
“ex-catholic (now Christian)”. Oxymoronic. Our Catholic schools must be much, much worse than I thought, if someone can attend a Catholic school for 13 years without grasping the utterly basic concept that Catholics are Christians. (Indeed for 1500 years they were virtually the only Christians). What on earth do you think Catholics are, if not Christians? If you claim that your folks are wrong to say you've “converted into something else” why aren’t you getting married in the Catholic Church?
-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 14, 2005.
Our Catholic schools must be much, much worse than I thought, if someone can attend a Catholic school for 13 years without grasping the utterly basic concept that Catholics are Christians.Steve,
Many are -teaching 'myths', modernism and theological mush... RATHER than the Catechism...
-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 14, 2005.
Thank you all for your quick answers. Actually one thing that I missed was that my parents are hoping that I do a second catholic marriage, and they would consider this one as non-existant. I do not think that would be right, and I am not sure if that is even allowed, but I am just trying to keep everyone happy.I also wanted to answer the question why I do not consider myself "converted into something else". I consider my walk with God as a whole piritual growth, I did not throw to the garbage what I believed before and turned into a complete different believer, my catholic walk was the base for my actual believes.
Would you be so kind to give me some advice as how we should handle the situation with my parents?
-- katy (katyusk@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.
I'm afraid there isn't much that can be done about easing your parents' concerns. If you considered yourself Catholic, or if your fiance was Catholic, and you were currently in an invalid marriage, you could then have your marriage validated by the Church. Likewise, should you come back to the Church at some future time, you could then have your marriage validated. However, the Catholic Church does not validate marriages of non-Catholics. I don't see that there is any way to make your marriage "more Catholic" for the sake of your parents, while at the same time having no intention of living as a Catholic.
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 14, 2005.
If either of them has formally defected from the Catholic Church, then their marriage will be valid. It won't be a Catholic wedding, but it will be recognised by the Church as valid.
-- Fr. Paul (pjdoucet@hotmail.com), February 14, 2005.
If only one defected, and both were Catholic, then it would be invalid.
-- Fr. Paul (pjdoucet@hotmail.com), February 14, 2005.
You are losing me here, Fr. Paul. Your last two posts seem to contradict each other. Or did you intend to say "neither" in the first post, rather than "either"?
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 14, 2005.
Howdy Katy,You say that you consider your Catholic raising to be the base of your beliefs and to be just a part of your walk with God.
I do not want to sound rude or anything but I strongly believe you are walking away from Christ. In the Catholic Church (as fully Christian as you can get) you have the fullness of the Faith.
Whatever you find in a protestant church or a so called non- denominational belief system is found in the Catholic Faith and will be more developed and also a fuller and deeper understanding of it (after all the Church has had 2000 years of guidance from the Holy Spirit compared to just a few hundred years of development for most protestants and only 10s of years for others namely non- denominationalists.)
I think the best path you could take, though I am sure you will not like this idea, is to postpone the marriage and contact a local Catholic parish about adult education classes. Honestly investigate the one true Holy Catholic Faith and see if your perception of what you learned when you were younger (or told as an adult by those against the Catholic Church) is correct or not. I strongly believe that anyone who leaves the Catholic Faith for another Christian group almost certainly has misconceptions about the Catholic Faith.
I say this as a person who did go off and practice other faiths but when I honestly looked at the Catholic Church (from Catholics' point of view not those out to attack the Church) I was shocked to find the Truth i had been searching for elsewhere.
That being said, no you will not be able to have a Catholic blessing of your marriage outside the Church but Christ is always happy to welcome back His lost sheep. If you look into it, you will find the Church is very warm in welcoming back those who have fallen away from the True Faith.
I can tell you are a real searcher for Christ's Truth so I do hope you will investigate the Catholic Church honestly. It will both set your family at ease and I truly believe that you will find the Truth you are looking for and will find peace by coming home to the faith that has already touched your soul.
Listen to the calling of Christ Jesus. If were you are is right, than you have nothing to fear in doing some research. If God is calling you home to His true Church than you also should not fear but instead run to Him. I hope I have not upset you that was not at all my intention. God bless, Jonny Catholic Faith Society A free email community for discussion of our Faith.
-- Jonny (GuyTex@ev1.net), February 14, 2005.
What I meant is if only one was Catholic and that one has defected from the Catholic Church, then the Church would view the marriage as valid (all else being OK of course).If both were Catholic and both defected then again it would be valid.
If both were Catholic and only one defected, then invalid (Lack of Canonical Form).
If nobody defected, no matter if one or both are Catholic, then invalid (L o C Form).
-- Fr. Paul (pjdoucet@hotmail.com), February 14, 2005.
“Many are -teaching 'myths', modernism and theological mush... RATHER than the Catechism...” Well maybe, but even if the schools never possessed a Catechism and were ultra- “liberal” and “mushy”, surely they must have mentioned once or twice that Catholics follow Jesus Christ and believe He is the Lord and Savior of the world (i.e. they are Christians). I guess Katy was absent or not paying attention at those times.Katy, I can't believe you truly understand WHAT the Catholic Church is, to turn away from it and join a man-made church. Sure, all Christians can pray to Jesus, but that's ALL protestants can do. You need the Sacraments to sustain you on your "path" to Heaven, and only the Church you were baptised in can give them to you.
-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 14, 2005.
Thank you all sincerely for your contribution.I am sorry Steve but I did not mean to turn this into a discussion. I was just looking for some advice. Just so you know, I know that Catholics are Christians, but since I do not believe everything the Catholic church believes I cannot call myself a Catholic. I grew up in a very so-called Catholic culture where most people claim they are Catholic and its simply out of tradition and they do not agree with a quarter of what the Catholic church believes. For four years that I attended confirmation cathetism I saw the number of attendants drop from over 200 to 6 people. I learnt a lot about God, but I so happened to find a church where for once I was not one of the boring 6, or the one who everyone is fearing she'll become a nun because she takes beliefs a bit more seriously than a tradition. I felt people living according to what they claimed to be. Please do not get me wrong, this is not an attack to any church, I just wanted you to understand where I came from. Thank you again for your advice.
-- katy (katyusk@yahoo.com), February 16, 2005.
KatyYour situation is understandable and the problem of "lax Catholics" seems to be disturbingly widespread. This is not reason, however, to leave the Catholic Church for some other congregation that is only teaching a part of God's Truth. Do not judge the Catholic Church as a whole based upon your prior experiences around a relatively small amount of lax Catholics.
Tim Kirschenheiter
-- Tim K. (tk4386@juno.com), February 17, 2005.
Yes, it’s very sad that many people call themselves Catholic without taking seriously what it means to be a Catholic. It’s especially sad that they found it something to “fear” that you might become a nun. (Some of the most wonderful people I know are nuns.)I’m sorry for my ironic tone earlier, I was just pointing out that it’s wrong to say “ex-Catholic, now Christian”. Obviously YOU have been a serious Christian all along, even though most of your classmates weren’t. I had a similar experience when I realized that most of those in my Catholic school did not take their faith seriously. But trust me, there are PLENTY of Catholics to whom their faith is the most important thing in their life.
You will find that the vast majority of protestants are also strictly nominal and their religion means little or nothing to their everyday life. I hope and pray that you continue exploring what it means to live as a true Christian and that you find your way back to the fullness of the Christian faith in the Church Christ founded for you.
-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 17, 2005.
In Katy's defense, I can understand why she is distinguishing between "Catholics" and "Christians". I even went to a Mass once and the Priest said that not all Catholics have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. How can you say that someone is a "Christian" if they have never personally invited Jesus into their life as their savior? In response to what someone said about Non- denominational groups only teaching partial Christian truth: There are many things in the Bible that the Catholic Church does not even touch, such as the filling of the Holy Spirit, and speaking in tongues. I have also been to many Catholic Mass' in my life and have not once heard a message on salvation or a call to the un-saved in the congregation. A Catholic service is the most unwelcoming service for the unchurched. At least many non-denomination churches try to keep up with the times so as to lead many to Christ. The Catholic church feels it cannot bend despite the fact it's losing so many followers. I'm sorry for being frank, but I only touched on a few of the issues as to why the Catholic church is in the shape it's in today.
-- Bryan Cribbs (bc@realtyexecutives.com), March 10, 2005.
I even went to a Mass once and the Priest said that not all Catholics have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.First, there is no such thing as the PERSONAL Lord and Savior. it is simply accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. Christ came so that the salvation of God might be available to ALL who desire Him, not to a targeted few.
but in regards to accepting Christ as the Savior, not all catholics are GOOD catholics. in fact, some who claim to be catholic arent really catholic at all either through actions which bring about de facto excomunication or for other reasons. the priest is correct, some people who call themselves catholic are not.
How can you say that someone is a "Christian" if they have never personally invited Jesus into their life as their savior?
indeed, no one can even claim that they are catholic unless they have accepted the Christ as their savior.
In response to what someone said about Non- denominational groups only teaching partial Christian truth: There are many things in the Bible that the Catholic Church does not even touch, such as the filling of the Holy Spirit, and speaking in tongues.
ridiculous. study before you make such silly claims. the saints were blessed with many gifts of the Holy Spirit. there are catholics TODAY who speak in tongues, heal the sick, and much more. in fact, Padre Pio was blest with the stigmata (not the kind from the heretical movie which makes a mockery of God's gift) and could cure people.
I have also been to many Catholic Mass' in my life and have not once heard a message on salvation or a call to the un-saved in the congregation.
i suggest you read the book "the Lamb's supper" by scott hahn. if you think that the mass doesnt contain a message on salvation then you obviously dont understand the significance of major parts of both the gospels and revelations. the entire mass is based on the salvific act of the Christ.
A Catholic service is the most unwelcoming service for the unchurched.
that would be because the catholic mass is not an advertising ploy to bring new people into the church. we dont seek false conversions through meaningless services. instead we worship God in our service, and our worship shows through.
At least many non-denomination churches try to keep up with the times so as to lead many to Christ.
of course, these non-denominational churches are of the world... they promise false ideals to people in order to lure them in. its a sales pitch, not a religion. you dont keep up with the times to lead people to Christ, you seperate yourself from this world and people will follow.
The Catholic church feels it cannot bend despite the fact it's losing so many followers.
you are incorrecte in the losing so many followers part. the catholic church is over 1 BILLION members. every day HUNDREDS of thousands convert to the catholic faith. the catholic church is doing everything but "losing so many followers."
-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 10, 2005.
>"I even went to a Mass once and the Priest said that not all Catholics have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior."A: I once went to a Mass where a priest said the Patriots were going to win the Super Bowl. If you are interested in knowing about Catholicism, deal with what the Catholic Church teaches, not with what one member of the Church said on one occasion.
>"How can you say that someone is a "Christian" if they have never personally invited Jesus into their life as their savior?"
A: Catholics were accepting Jersus Christ as their Savior in Spirit and in Truth for 1,500 years before the plague of denominationalism was born.
>"There are many things in the Bible that the Catholic Church does not even touch, such as the filling of the Holy Spirit, and speaking in tongues."
A: There is nothing in the Bible that the Catholic Church does not teach, and which the Catholic Church did not teach before the Bible existed. The Catholic Church compiled the Bible from its own writings, for its own use, and did not include anything in the Bible that conflicted in any way with pre-existing Catholic teaching.
>"I have also been to many Catholic Mass' in my life and have not once heard a message on salvation or a call to the un-saved in the congregation."
A: The Mass itself is the ongoing re-presentation of the salvific act of Jesus Christ, the very offering of His sacred Body and Blood by which we are saved. Nothing on earth is as intimately tied to Salvation as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Other Christian services may deal with the subject of Salvation, but only the Mass IS the very act of Salvation, re-presented for all men, for all time.
>"A Catholic service is the most unwelcoming service for the unchurched."
A: The purpose of the Mass is worship, not socialization. Most Catholic parishes offer plenty of times for fellowship, including right after the Mass. During the Mass however our full attention is on worshipping God, not welcoming one another.
>"At least many non-denomination churches try to keep up with the times so as to lead many to Christ."
A: Yes, sadly they do. Many of them ordain women, approve of homosexuality and abortion, allow divorce, and "keep up with the times" so thoroughly that sinners can feel right at home without repenting of their sin. The Catholic Church cannot "keep up with the times" because it is forever committed to the fullness of truth which Christ gave it, which "the times" are moving further and further away from.
>"The Catholic church feels it cannot bend despite the fact it's losing so many followers."
A: That's right! The truth, when bent, is no longer the truth. As for losing members, therte has not been a single year since the time of the Apostles when the membership of the Catholic Church did not increase. The Catholic Church continues the mission Christ personally gave it - to make disciples of all peoples.
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 10, 2005.
its funny... with the exception of the first point on each of our posts, Paul M and i said almost exactly the same things in response to each issue. great minds think alike, eh?i really liked the line about the "plague of denominationalism" though, very nice wording for such an outbreak.
-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 10, 2005.